Your thoughts on the big ol' bombers of a certain vintage...

[herr_oberst]

I know these old warbirds are magnificent and of course they need to be preserved but will there come a time where the risk vs reward of taking the public up for a ride stops paying off? And how will we know?

I have all confidence that the guys and gals that keep 'em in the air are smart, capable and do their utmost for the safety of the paying guests, but, jeez, the sheer number of moving parts and the age of the airframe plus the high costs involved - eventually the operation is no longer sustainable, no matter how hard we try, or how much we justify it to ourselves, right?

Are we seeing the end of an era with the latest Fortress crash? Are there ways to keep it going without wrapping everything in bubble wrap and turning it into a Disney adventure, with all the soul sucked out of the experience?

I'd love to hear what all of the flyboys and flygals on the site are thinking...

[Seahawk]

There are some folks here that work on old warbirds so they would have more insight.

From my perspective I worry less about the airframe certifications and flight clearances than the electrical and propulsion systems.

Everyone involved with these airplanes is a complete professional and I’d go flying tomorrow.

[varmint]

These planes were built with the expectation/hope that they’d survive six months of combat and then be worn out. 70 years is a long time.

[Sooner or later]

There is a risk to everything. I have flown on two and would fly again tomorrow if given the chance.

[wdfifteen]

It makes me wonder what the non-combat attrition rate was when they were in service and pressured to fly day after day. These excursion planes can cancel a flight at any time for any reason and still they crash at a rate far higher than other commercial air planes.

[Crowbob]

Originally Posted by varmint

These planes were built with the expectation/hope that they’d survive six months of combat and then be worn out. 70 years is a long time.

Is anybody remanufacturing these machines or even parts of these machines?

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

Is anybody remanufacturing these machines or even parts of these machines?

Collings Foundation, owner of the one that crashed, has a complete fab shop. They build them up once they acquire a beater. A few years back Nine O Nine wrecked after landing and ran off the runway. No serious injuries from that wreck. They rebuilt it over a couple of years.

When you fly with them they send out an annual magazine. One issue went over their refurb facilities. It was impressive.

[Crowbob]

Thank you.

[crustychief]

I am currently an integral part of a team (Assistant lead) that is restoring the only known SBD-1 to exist. the lead is a retired PSA mech that is meticulous to every detail. Even though we will never fly it, he demands everything be in accordance with manufacturer tolerance and standards. it will essentially be a brand new airplane with some old parts. I would fly in any old warbird in a heartbeat because the planes I fly for recreation are not really any different and are nearly as old.

[crustychief]

A couple of brake backing plates made from the template of the original.

[Cajundaddy]

I think they were meant to be flown and observed flying, so maintain them to high standards knowing that there will always be some inherent risk.

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by crustychief

I am currently an integral part of a team (Assistant lead) that is restoring the only known SBD-1 to exist. the lead is a retired PSA mech that is meticulous to every detail. Even though we will never fly it, he demands everything be in accordance with manufacturer tolerance and standards. it will essentially be a brand new airplane with some old parts. I would fly in any old warbird in a heartbeat because the planes I fly for recreation are not really any different and are nearly as old.

Lucky guy!

[greglepore]

Not only are the well built and maintained, but there is a special set of FAR's that relate to them and essentially make the operators adhere to standards of a small airline, including random checkrides etc. Who knows how often its enforced, but its there. I'd fly on one in a heartbeat.

[john70t]

I went up with my dad on his 70th. Nothing like it. Also volunteered on the ground crew for a summer.
I would do it again twice a week if I had the money.

The landings and takeoff are the most dangerous times and probably accumulate the most wear-n-tear on the machines.
I hope they keep flying but with much longer routes.

The public interest is what still keeps them flying.

[Icemaster]

Every year Aluminum Overcast flys in and hangs out for a few days, I'm lucky enough to live under part of the circuit they fly when they take passengers up, it's a beautiful weekend. One year my son and I sat on the roof with tripod, zoom and video cameras and captured some magnificent in air shots.

My boys fascination started (and mine rebooted) when they played soccer at a park adjacent to the field where she and the occasional 25 and 51 would harbor while they were in town. If you can, try to picture a soccer game full of 8-10 year olds, halting to a dead stop with every head turned skyward as a 17 departed overhead and seemingly floated by, gracefully and gently a few hundred feet above us, that was magic. Made even sweeter by seeing every face split wide with the biggest grins I've ever seen.

Yeah, well, we had a lot of dust in our eyes yesterday morning for a lot of reasons.

I'd fly in a heartbeat and wouldn't think twice.

[fanaudical]

I'm sure there are a bunch of GA planes flying about that are in worse shape.

[KNS]

For the most part the flyable warbirds (and the one giving rides) are well maintained.

I am speculating, of course, but my guess is pilot error. He had trouble with one engine but no indication as of yet that the other three weren’t running properly. There may have been a control system failure we don’t know about yet.

It would be a shame if the warbird fleet was banned from giving rides just because the planes are old. The 737 any of us flew on last week likely had five times as many hours as the B-17. They all keep flying because they’re well maintained.

[crustychief]

I heard it may have been a fueling error. Just speculation now though.

[Dantilla]

A aircraft mechanic friend now works for a museum where everything is kept in flying condition. He recently told me there is a place in England where he can order any part for a P-51, Spitfire, the Grumman cats, and a host of other historic airplanes.
They have the tooling and construction drawings to manufacture any parts needed.

[crustychief]

I need the joiner prices for the outer wing sections of a pbj (b-25) ours are beyond repair .