Federal Emissions Warranty - issues

[rockfan4]

The wife has a '16 Impala with 76k on it.
So it's out of powertrain warranty, but should still be covered by the 8yr/80,000 emissions warranty.
The cat on the left side of the engine has a crack in the pipe near the flange to the y-pipe. Loud exhaust, throws a code.
GM even has a write up about it - 17-NA-321, it says if the pipe is cracked, replace the cat.
The local steeler says that's not what the emissions warranty covers, it would only cover it if the cat was clogged. By the way they charged me $70 to tell me that. I say the warranty says it covers the cat, it's one piece welded together, you have to replace it, it should be covered. A car with a CEL won't pass emissions, the crack in the pipe is causing the CEL.
There's a thread on ImpalaForums where others have had their cat replaced when out of powertrain.
Where do I go from here?
Who do I call?
Who do I sue?

[asphaltgambler]

I would ask the dealership who is their area rep from GM? Contact him directly, explain the situation - go from there.

[Steve Carlton]

If you have any other Chevy dealers in your area, try calling them and ask for the service manager. If Chevy won't pay the dealer, they're not going to do the work. If the other dealers say no, then I would appeal to the district service manager as asphalt suggested, and be super nice about it.

If no luck, why not get the pipe welded?

[Tobra]

The local dealership guy is a liar.

Contact GM directly

[rockfan4]

Apparently district service managers are carefully hidden away, probably keeps them from getting their houses torched.
I have an email in to GM Customer Care. I might call them tomorrow if I don't hear anything, depending on how busy work is.
I also contacted the dealer we bought the car from, they're about 60 miles away, I'd like to avoid driving there if I don't have to, but we'll see.
If all that fails, yes, the existing cat will get welded. I don't think it can be done on the car, but assuming the bolts all come off without too much drama, it shouldn't be an issue. It'll probably crack again further up the pipe, but that's 3 years from now me's problem.

[Por_sha911]

Would welding the cat cause the core to melt?

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Would welding the cat cause the core to melt?

Nah...

[asphaltgambler]

........the problem with trying to weld modern exhaust is the metals are a composite. When heating them or trying to fuse them it is extremely difficult as the area tends to sag and melt just at the point where it appears that good penetration is about to take place.

good luck with that..........especially at a flanged part where it tends to be slightly thinner......

[rockfan4]

I called Chevrolet Customer Care today.
Spent about 45 minutes on the phone with them.
The person on the phone tried to call the dealership for their side of the story, but they didn't answer. The service department is open until 8:00pm, so I'm not sure why they didn't answer.
So she'll have to call me back.
I guess I was expecting some warranty expert to come on the line and proclaim "Nope, they're wrong, you're covered".
But I was disappointed again.

Let's see what tomorrow brings.

[rfuerst911sc]

Originally Posted by rockfan4

I called Chevrolet Customer Care today.
Spent about 45 minutes on the phone with them.
The person on the phone tried to call the dealership for their side of the story, but they didn't answer. The service department is open until 8:00pm, so I'm not sure why they didn't answer.
So she'll have to call me back.
I guess I was expecting some warranty expert to come on the line and proclaim "Nope, they're wrong, you're covered".
But I was disappointed again.

Let's see what tomorrow brings.

I'm going to assume you were friendly/polite on the phone which is the best way to start these types of discussions . If they call you back today and you don't get the answer you want don't be afraid to ratchet it up . Go higher on the ladder if possible , if not most towns news stations have investigative reporters that love this stuff Use that approach if you have to with the dealership/management that may be enough of a " threat " for them to change their minds . In my opinion your request is reasonable . Good luck

[john70t]

You might want to add your experience to: https://www.carcomplaints.com/Chevrolet/Impala/

Same site. There are 937 Technical Service Bulletins (TSBs) for that car.......but no recalls.
https://www.carcomplaints.com/Chevrolet/Impala/2016/tsbs/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_Service_Bulletin
The technical Service Bulletin are emitted by the manufacturer.

One major difference between a recall and a TSB in the automotive industry is that a recall usually evolves out of safety issues at the behest of an organization like the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). The ensuing recall maintenance/repair work is usually done at no charge to the car owner, regardless of the car's warranty status. Dealers are usually under no mandate to call in cars for which there are TSBs to do the related repairs. Nor is there an obligation to do the TSB repairs for free or at reduced charges to the owner, since the manufacturer does not require the repair to be performed and does not reimburse the dealership for repairs. When the vehicle's manufacturer releases a recall, they not only require the dealership to perform the repair, but will reimburse them the recall's repair.


Dealerships are technically not under obligation to repair, but if the crack is purely a manufacturing defect and not damage there might be some recourse through lemon law, and/or small claims when all else fails. Consumer or government or local news agencies might be able to help. IDK. Your view seems reasonable. It's only a three year old car.

[Synchro Joe]

I have fought this on a couple GM SUV's, and it takes some effort but they usually bellied up and took care of it. For the company title for the customer advocacy types, but you can start here after documenting the local efforts, names of service and management there you talked to. Mention how long you've been a loyal GM customer for x years, and would prefer to solve it without going the media, legal, channels, etc. Good luck!

From: https://www.elliott.org/company-contacts/general-motors/

Executive Contacts

Primary Contact
Alan Batey
Executive Vice President and President, North America
300 Renaissance Center
Detroit, MI 48243
alan.batey@gm.com

Secondary Contact
Tony Cervone
Senior Vice President, Global Communications
300 Renaissance Center
Detroit, MI 48243
tony.cervone@gm.com

Dan Ammann
President
300 Renaissance Center
Detroit, MI 48243
dan.ammann@gm.com

Chief Executive
Mary T. Barra
Chairman & CEO
300 Renaissance Center
Detroit, MI 48243
(313) 556-5000
mary.barra@gm.com

[rockfan4]

Originally Posted by john70t

One major difference between a recall and a TSB in the automotive industry is that a recall usually evolves out of safety issues at the behest of an organization like the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). The ensuing recall maintenance/repair work is usually done at no charge to the car owner, regardless of the car's warranty status. Dealers are usually under no mandate to call in cars for which there are TSBs to do the related repairs. Nor is there an obligation to do the TSB repairs for free or at reduced charges to the owner, since the manufacturer does not require the repair to be performed and does not reimburse the dealership for repairs. When the vehicle's manufacturer releases a recall, they not only require the dealership to perform the repair, but will reimburse them the recall's repair. [/I]

I'm not trying to get it repaired for free because of the TSB, I'm trying to get it repaired for free because there's a 8yr / 80,000m Emissions warranty, which covers defects in specific parts, one of which is the catalytic convertor.

https://my.chevrolet.com/content/dam/gmownercenter/gmna/dynamic/manuals/2016/Chevrolet/Multi-Model%20PDFs/2k16chevylimitedwty3rdPrint.pdf
Page 21:

Federal Emission Defect Warranty
GM warrants to the owner the following:
.
The vehicle was designed, equipped, and built so as to conform at the time of sale with applicable regulations of the Federal Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).
.
The vehicle is free from defects in materials and workmanship which cause the vehicle to fail to conform with those regulations during the emission warranty
period. Emission-related defects in the genuine GM parts listed under the
Emission Warranty Parts List, including related diagnostic costs, parts, and labor are covered by this warranty.

The emission parts listed here are covered under the Emission Control
System Warranty. The terms are explained in the Emission Control Systems Warranty under “Federal Emission Control System Warranty”
and the “California Emission Control System Warranty.”
..lots of parts...
Catalytic Converter(s)
..lots more parts...

I was nice to the lady on the phone, she called me back today and said she was able to talk to one person at the dealership, but the tech who worked on the car doesn't come in until 3:00pm, so she will call be back between 3:30 and 4:00.

[1990C4S]

I would tig weld it and move on.

[chapo]

Jeep dealer on my old Jeep Commanche 4 liter would replace the header as emissions related every time it cracked. the crack would appear almost miraculously whenever I got back from a hard off road weekend. No questions asked.

[john70t]

I always wanted a brand new plastic panel, timing-chain, friendly customer service center, bulletproof Saturn which would last 200k guaranteed like a Toyota.
Like dad and the gf had.
Word spreads.

Upper 40 to 55mpg mileage same as a Prius.
Those were truly excellent cars. The Metro/Swift was too.

But around 1984 GM decided to make On Star mandatory: Remote door unlock, remote kill switch, microphone always on, etc.
Then they killed EV1 and Buick.
I never considered buying any GM vehicle since then.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by john70t

But around 1984 GM decided to make On Star mandatory: Remote door unlock, remote kill switch, microphone always on, etc.

I think it was much later than that... just sayin

[john70t]

Maybe two decades later, iirc. thx.
I typed 1984 for a reason.

[rockfan4]

Update: no progress.
Friday afternoon the rep did call me back, we talked a bit, she put me on hold, came back, asked me a few more questions, then forwarded me to her supervisor. She asked me a few more questions, then said someone would call me back in two business days. That's today, and a third person did call me back today. The thing is, she asked me the same questions the first two people asked me, and then said she had to talk to the service writer at the dealership. That was about 6 hours ago, so I'm guessing I'm not getting another call back today.

The wife has some time off at the end of the month. If I can get her to give up the car for a day, and if there's no resolution by then I'll pull it and get it welded or brazed or silver soldered, or pack the crack full of JB Weld.

[Sooner or later]

I went through the same kind of crap with an F250. (A transmission problem under warranty that dragged out for over a month.) I talked kindly to damn near every swinging dick in the Ford organization. I finally took matters into my own hands and went back to the dealership and started raising hell right in the middle of the showroom. How I wouldn't buy another Ford vehicle if my life depended on it. I ranted like a madman for about 5 minutes before they pulled me off the showroom floor and to a separate room. I told them that I would repeat today's show every stinking day until I got some answers. They promised that further tantrums on my part would not be neccessary and I would hear back from them. Next day I get a call from Ford Corp. They will pay for entire repair. They will pay all rental car fees.

I still haven't bought another Ford.