"Cruising" out the war...

[dd74]

Okay, I see within the last week I've missed a hella lot of war and/or diplomatic bantering on this site, but for good reason...

I just got back from a little week-long cruise down to Mexico. To say the least, now was not the best time to leave the country, but what the hell, sometimes you just have to get away.

Nonetheless, there were some interesting scenarios/insights onboard that I found interesting:

1) Leaving San Pedro harbor, the Coast Guard was everywhere; flying in helicopters, sailing in cutters alongside the LA Harbor police, both of whom flanked our liner (Star Princess) as it sailed to sea.

2) Throughout the journey, supposedly a US Navy destroyer was out in int'l waters, watching every move that could be made on our ship even beyond the Mexican border.

3) Onboard security - well I never saw it, but beyond the usual keycard entry/exit process, rumor was a brace of firepower was locked away somewhere on the ship's bridge.

4) In Puerta Vallarta, Mazatlan and Cabo, Mexican military was everywhere we were (I don't know if this was a good or bad thing). Once we got into the towns, then it was up to the Mexican version of Boss Hawg-like cop-brutes in beaten-up Chevy pickups. To say the least, this wasn't comforting either.

5) French nationals were onboard the ship, but very, very quiet and polite.

6) French fries and French toast was on the menu, yet no one cared - these people (including myself) ate everything that didn't move.

7) More people seemed to be watching the NCAA finals than CNN war footage.

The backlash against French Fries and French Toast are amusing sidelines to this grave situation. Should I call baguettes Freedom Buns? Will French Maid uniforms be called Freedom Maid uniforms now?

Rest assured that French Toast and French Fries stand firmly behind the United States and its brave soldiers by feeding them so they can fight another day.

And for anyone boycotting France, remember, whatever you do do not buy airline tickets. Even if the airplane you fly on isn't and Airbus (final assembly line in Toulouse, France), there's a good chance that the aircraft could have French built components on it.

dd74, good for you for taking a cruise and staying away from those infernal flying machines.

[bell]

Originally posted by dd74

2) Throughout the journey, supposedly a US Navy destroyer was out in int'l waters, watching every move that could be made on our ship even beyond the Mexican border.

that gives you a nice sense of security doesn't it
destroyers can protect freedom from many many miles away, i think you were in good hands

[Aurel]

I don`t know if it is just me or what, but I have never felt safe around military or cops...accidents happen so fast. I remember this familly who got their dog shot at a roadstop. Or these two french girls who were run over by a cop`s SUV on a beach in Miami. I know, the day I`ll see soldiers down my street, freedom will be gone and it`ll be time for me to take an airbus back to Paris

Aurel

[bell]

i think that if we see soldiers on our streets there will be more to worry about than just the soldiers............

[dd74]

Originally posted by bell
i think that if we see soldiers on our streets there will be more to worry about than just the soldiers............

Anyone remember the LA riots? There were soldiers everywhere on the streets. To say the least, it was unsettling. It felt as if a person were to make one wrong move, for whatever reason, they'd be staring down the barrel of an M16.

[bell]

and how many innocent people were injured/robbed/looted during the riots? mostly because of a stupid drunk man who ran from the cops and the media..........

one of the reasons i don't live in LA.......

[speeder]

Bell, if you think that the L.A. riots were caused by "one stupid drunk man who ran from the cops", and not his filmed beating and subsequent aquittal of said cops by an all-white jury, then I do not believe that you have the right to call anyone stupid.

And I guess I should thank you for staying out of L.A.

[rcecale]

Originally posted by Aurel
I know, the day I`ll see soldiers down my street, freedom will be gone and it`ll be time for me to take an airbus back to Paris

Aurel

I guess that's the difference between the French and Americans. When you have soldiers on YOUR streets, they belong to some other country, moving in to take your freedom away from you. Remember the Nazi's?

In America, we don't play it that way. Our soldiers would be there only to defend the freedom of the population. They will be there to defend our way of life. They will be there to ensure you had safe passage to take your cowardly ass to the airport so you could run away from those who would oppress you.

Those soldiers will be there because they took an oath...

I do Solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution Of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Randy

[bell]

Originally posted by speeder
Bell, if you think that the L.A. riots were caused by "one stupid drunk man who ran from the cops", and not his filmed beating and subsequent aquittal of said cops by an all-white jury, then I do not believe that you have the right to call anyone stupid.

And I guess I should thank you for staying out of L.A.

sorry i wasn't clear.........i meant to say that's when it started, which it was.
and i point my finger at the media more, i should've emphisised that.

and rcecale pretty much summed it up........

[Aurel]

Randy,

Soldiers don`t think for themselves. They obey orders. That is what I don`t like with them. It is very obvious that if they had the ability to think for themelves, they would have chosen another job. The nazis, too, obeyed orders...

Aurel

[island911]

Aurel, you're right to an extent.
Though, as implied by Randys post; orders come second to "support and defend the Constitution Of the United States"

[turbo6bar]

Originally posted by Aurel
Soldiers don`t think for themselves. They obey orders. That is what I don`t like with them. It is very obvious that if they had the ability to think for themelves, they would have chosen another job. The nazis, too, obeyed orders...

Do you talk like this in real life, or do you get off by trying to piss off people?

I've never met a person in my 27 years who's ever spouted such words. Oh well. It's a free country.

Jurgen

[bell]

Originally posted by Aurel
Randy,

Soldiers don`t think for themselves. They obey orders. That is what I don`t like with them. It is very obvious that if they had the ability to think for themelves, they would have chosen another job. The nazis, too, obeyed orders...

Aurel

you probably were partaking in the anti-war demonstrations downtown manhatten..........

comparing our military to the nazi's.........say that to a marine next time you're face to face with one, i'd love to see your mouth slapped

[rcecale]

Aurel,

As I told Galen (Beep,Beep), it amazes me when people who have no clue what they talk about speak as though they know everything.

I served in the US Marine Corps for 20 years and never once was I "given orders" to inflict harm on the innocent.

You say that "soldiers don't think for themselves", again, AMAZING...! For 20 years, it was reinforced that Marines shall follow the following 14 Leadership Traits:

1.) Dependability - The certainty of proper performance of duty.

2.) Bearing - Creating a favorable impression in carriage, appearance and personal conduct at all times.

3.) Courage - The mental quality that recognizes fear of danger or criticism, but enables a man to proceed in the face of it with calmness and firmness.

4.) Decisiveness - Ability to make decisions promptly and to announce them in clear, forceful manner.

5.) Endurance - The mental and physical stamina measured by the ability to withstand pain, fatigue, stress and hardship.

6.) Enthusiasm - The display of sincere interest and exuberance in the performance of duty.

7.) Initiative - Taking action in the absence of orders.

8.) Integrity - Uprightness of character and soundness of moral principles; includes the qualities of truthfulness and honesty.

9.) Judgment - The ability to weigh facts and possible solutions on which to base sound decisions.

10.) Justice - Giving reward and punishment according to merits of the case in question. The ability to administer a system of rewards and punishments impartially and consistently.

11.) Knowledge - Understanding of a science or an art. The range of one's information, including professional knowledge and an understanding of your Marines.

12.) Tact - The ability to deal with others without creating offense.

13.) Unselfishness - Avoidance of providing for one's own comfort and personal advancement at the expense of others.

14.) Loyalty - The quality of faithfulness to country, the Corps, the unit, to one's seniors, subordinates and peers.


Service in the military is all about knowing how to think for yourself. Every soldier, sailor, airman or Marine is expected to think for himself. Sure we follow orders, just the same way every citizen is expected to follow the rules....speed limits, crimes, personal conduct. We are all expected to either follow the laws or be held accountable for not following them.

When the National Guard was called in during the L.A. Riots, they were there to stop the people who were breaking the law. There has been protest upon protest of this war with Iraq. These people have been allowed to state their position, without facing reprisal, or torture or even death for giving their opinion. It is only when they become disruptive, such as blocking traffic by laying across 5th Ave. in N.Y. or destroying property, when the law is broken, that they are apprehended. And still, they are not forced into silense.

I was born with the ability to think for myself. That is my birthright of being an American. Growing up in a free country allowed me to learn to make decisions on my own and not have to depend on others to do my thinking for me.

Sometimes it is hard to swallow, but my decision to serve my country has allowed others with opinions different than mine to voice them. Even those not fortunate enough to have been born here. If you feel the need to bad-mouth this country, then do so. But just remember, each time you open your mouth to speak, it is because of American men and women who have "made a decision" to protect that right!

Randy

Well, there is the old G.I. saying, "Ours is not to reason why, ours is but to do or die".

No army throughout history would have been successful had the soldiers not automatically obeyed orders and carried them out as best as they could.

Of course, I think most soldiers are taught this kind of obedience rather than born with it. And, as they rise through the ranks, they are put into positions where they have to make some very difficult decisions.

How many of you would want to be General Tommy Franks for a day?

[rcecale]

Originally posted by bell
.......say that to a marine next time you're face to face with one, i'd love to see your mouth slapped

Bell,

the correct response would be to rip his head off and spit down his throat!

Randy

Or gouge out his eyeballs and....Oh wait, this filter thingy they have on this board...

[Aurel]

Jurgen,

No I don`t talk like this in real life, because I know people would get pissed and want a fight. And I am not interested in physical fight. Call this cowardice if you want. I agree I would do a poor soldier. I do not either get off by pissing people, there are enough things that piss me off in the world right now.

For instance, I think it is very sad that this country, right now, has invested so much in its military, rather than educating its kids. Sending 18 year old kids get killed for a war that is about oil is very sad, while those same kids could be learning in a college how make this country less oil dependant. Research could bring a lot of answers that war will never bring, and all these kids have the ability to think for themselves, if only they were given that chance. Making them soldiers does not give them this opportunity, IMHO.

Aurel

[bell]

a perfect example of the internet and how people "use" it ........

the education issue is a different problem entirely.....i don't even want to get started on that one

rcecale.......i was being nice