They might be the same price as a new roof and conventional solar panels, but no way are they the same price as just solar panels.

I.e.if you wanted solar and needed a new roof, it might make sense to go that route

Take whatever money you were going to spend on solar and buy some decent dividend growth stock. The dividends will cover your electric bill forever and the stock will appreciate over time.

At your electric rates, unless you're trying to make a "green" statement, there are lots of better ways to invest that money. Enjoy the crazy low electric rates!

That is just the delivery charge. It does not include supply. You will be around. 055 according to DP&L

Correct

Correct. Looking at my bill delivery + supply is 5.3 cents. I have to go to DP&L and get a complete electric bill. I only save the "bottom line" page which does not have all the details.

Another thing that must be taken into account when looking at payoff time is the lost opportunity of investing the money.

If you spend 10 grand on solar you now have lost 10 grand in investment opportunity which could easily be 50 bucks a month at the start and 100 a month after 10 years.

I posted before I went onto solar in March 2016. Here (San Diego County) we have a tiered system of: 29 cents per kWh to 620 kWh, 39 cents per kWh 620 to 1,600 kWh, & 55 cents over 1,600 kWh. My highest bill was $595 during the coldest part of winter & about $225 during summer & the house is all electric. I always planned on solar. After the $595 bill, I decided to get serious about solar. So I had an array of 25 panels producing a max of 7.75 kW/hr. at a cost of $27K. It produces up to 56 kW/day during the summer and half that during the dead of winter. Since it began, it has produced 48.5 MW of power. The company that installed it made the system produce 10% over my average power consumption. I got onto a net metering program (which means they pay me for the excess generation at the end of the year - at the wholesale rate of 2 cents per kWh) and got the 30% tax credit, so the system ended up costing me about $18,900. I haven't paid SDG&E a cent since, so I'm hoping to break even in less than six years. I figure the panels will have to be replaced in 20 to 30 years or the system upgraded. I consider it to pencil out dollar wise.

Wow! Our base rate in SoCal is $0.19/kwh and tier 3 is $0.40/kwh. The difference between coal generation and "green" generation. You can see why the NE states are not ready to give up on coal. :eek:

That 18,900 invested in the S&P during March of 2016 (2000) would now be worth 28,000 (3100). That must be taken into account when considering break even. And now that 28,000 will grow by even larger dollar amounts moving foward.

You are ahead on the deal at the current time but not nearly as much as you think. And you could actually fall behind as that 28,000 grows moving forward. You may save 4000 a year in electricity but could lose 4000 in investment growth.

Loss of opportunity must be taken into account.

What makes you think the power in California is green?

Wow! I had no idea the S&P had increased 47.36% in 3.67 years or 12.9% per year on average. I guess I did really miss out. I can't even imagine if I had taken that opportunity cost and invested it over paying for my solar installation over time how rich I'd be in a short period of time - especially considering compound interest. I just figured at a conservative estimate of $3,125/yr. for 2.67 years I'd save $8,345 which would make me pretty happy. Of course I may be running the numbers wrong.
Your point on opportunity cost exceeding or reducing the margin is well taken.

How did I manage to reduce my energy use by 75%? It was a process and didn't cost all that much up front. Some lifestyle change but not too much there either. My house was already well insulated with R30 in the attic and R11 in the walls. Some but not all windows were already double pane.

We live in SoCal and summer average high is 95F, sometimes reaching 110F in a heat wave. Our old habit was to leave the A/C set to 74F and it would come on around noon and run til about 7pm when things cooled off. Our system is old and inefficient and consumed a ton of electricity in summer. We installed an attic fan to draw heat out, added a fan to ventilate the house at night, and now leave most windows open all night to cool down the house to around 65F. We button everything up tight in the AM and the house will now stay cool until 4-5pm. As a result we only have to run A/C for 2-3 hours in the late afternoon. This was the largest savings.

We also replaced 2 old worn out energy hog refrigerators with 1 modern fridge and 1 small beverage fridge. Significant savings.

Add a smart T-stat and adjust it to keep the house 60F for sleep or away, to 65F actively home in winter and 78F in summer. A wider comfort range than before but we can adapt clothing choices to stay comfortable.

The final step was gradually shifting to 100% LED lighting inside and out as prices dropped on modern LED bulbs. This provides nice warm 2700K light at a 90% energy savings over incandescent. There was a learning curve to get good color and illumination and a few dimmers needed to be changed for compatibility. These bulbs last 10x as long while providing the same light @10% the energy use. Significant savings.

Total spent was around $2300 for fridge, fans, and lighting. I save nearly that much in energy costs every year.

Hehe, "relatively green" compared with the NE @ 10x the cost. Welcome to California!

35% NG, 31% renewable, 10% hydro, 9% nuke.

https://ww2.energy.ca.gov/almanac/electricity_data/total_system_power.html

Ohio generation: 47% coal, 34% NG, 15% nuke, renewables 3%.
https://www.puco.ohio.gov/be-informed/consumer-topics/how-does-ohio-generate-electricity/

I have done the same thing and cut my bill in half. I did max out my attic insulation to R79 in most of the house. I know that sounds over the top but it cost damn near nothing at the time. I received a 30% tax credit (I think it was 30%) and Lowes and Home Depot were running big sales on insulation. I ended up paying something like fifty cents a foot for R79. Payback was about a year.

Excellent info, thanks!

Very similar to the approach I was thinking of, my mountain house is micro size by US standards, we'll do it all in one go when we get around do it

My UK house has mid 18th century wall insulation, 2ft thick wall with stone inner/outer courses with a dry rubble/dirt filled cavity, it has plenty of drafts, an open fire place, no floor insulation, double glazed windows, some roof insulation and we burn oil for heating.

No AC required as we keep the doors/windows closed in the summer to keep the heat out :D

Very different climate conditions where we live but the fundamentals are the same. Good insulation, efficient appliances and lighting, take advantage of nightime cool in summer and daytime warmth in winter with controlled ventilation. We need very little heating here in winter but a friend in Idaho has a boiler and floor heating. He considers it an efficient way to stay comfortable during long winters there. He supplements with a wood burning stove.

On my bill I have an energy charge that I simply divide by the total KWH used = 0.13/kwh

At 13 cents per kWh, if there is net-metering, you can easily make solar work.I would need to check your yearly average kWh/kW production for your specific zipcode.

Anyone here can check using PV-Watts

https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/

What does that link tell me? Using the default settings for my location (73507) it shows $498 annually.

I checked my results on that link, and they seemed to be within a ball park range. According to it, my value from electric production per year is $5,183. I might look into some of the parameters and go back & give it another try, but it seemed to within a reasonable range - interesting. Thanks James.