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Brew Master
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc View Post
Cabmando yes all intake and exhaust piping is flexible silver foiled . I have been told the inside is like a black sock then insulation then the silver exterior . While it works it seems a little chincy to me .

The quotes I will receive today will include all new metal ductwork . I assume this will add some $$$ to the project but it should provide a better final result . Is there a reason the ducts would transition from rectangular to round ? Why not rectangular the entire length ? Would fit tighter to the floor joists and look a little cleaner . Just curious .
Runouts from the main trunk typically go to round. I suppose you could run wall stack duct to the register but don't know why you would. Old rule of thumb 5"= 50 cfm 6"=100 cfm 7"=150 cfm 8"=200 cfm 4x10 registers for 50-100 cfm 4x12 for 150 cfm 4x14 for 200 cfm . I'd guess if you were 6900 for the existing duct system, which is NUTS in my opinion, you'll be looking at over 10K for R&R the entire system. You might consider having a professional come in and do an energy audit while you're spending the money to see how your insulation is and what you might need to address to make your home more energy efficient. Adding a new furnace to a home that isn't sealed well will save you money but you'll be wasting some of the savings if your house isn't sealed well.

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Old 01-12-2020, 11:46 AM
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Cab when you say $6900.00 is nuts does that mean too high or too low ? My house is fairly tight , we do not have any drafts when cold/windy but I know the attic insulation could be increased . It's on the to do list just haven't gotten there yet .
Old 01-12-2020, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc View Post
Cab when you say $6900.00 is nuts does that mean too high or too low ? My house is fairly tight , we do not have any drafts when cold/windy but I know the attic insulation could be increased . It's on the to do list just haven't gotten there yet .
Seems crazy high to me but that's a difference in where we live I suppose. Replacing just the indoor/outdoor units, taping ducts and installing new refrigerant lines shouldn't take more than two days so $3200 labor figuring two guys and honestly two guys should be able to get it done in less than two full days. I suppose the equipment at 3700 isn't "terrible" but they're using a pretty healthy markup. I haven't been in the HVAC game since 08 but DAMN I see what guys are charging for stuff and think about setting my son up with a business.
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Old 01-12-2020, 12:14 PM
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I received the quotes from my repair guy but somehow I lost two of them 😟 I have asked for them to be resent . But the one I have is for a 16 SEER dual fuel heat pump with 80,000 BTU furnace with 96 percent efficiency . It comes with 10 year warranty on parts/compressor , 20 years on heat exchanger and 3 years labor . Price is $7800.00 and this includes all new metal ducts . Thoughts ?
Old 01-12-2020, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc View Post
i received the quotes from my repair guy but somehow i lost two of them �� i have asked for them to be resent . But the one i have is for a 16 seer dual fuel heat pump with 80,000 btu furnace with 96 percent efficiency . It comes with 10 year warranty on parts/compressor , 20 years on heat exchanger and 3 years labor . Price is $7800.00 and this includes all new metal ducts . Thoughts ?
Take it!!... Well wait to see what the other quotes are but that sounds a lot better than the 6900.
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Last edited by cabmando; 01-12-2020 at 03:11 PM..
Old 01-12-2020, 03:09 PM
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The other quotes now in , here is what we have .

1. 14 SEER 3 ton AC with 92 percent efficient LP furnace. 10 year parts warranty 20 on heat exchanger and 3 years labor $5600.00 . For an additional $750.00 it jumps to 16 SEER for $6350.00

2. 16 SEER heat pump dual fuel with 80,000 BTU LP furnace with 96 percent efficiency same warranty as stated above for $7800.00

3. 17.5 SEER heat pump with inverter compressor and variable speed air handler . It has WiFi thermostat and 10 KW back up heat strips. Same warranty as above for $7975.00

All three options include new metal duct work . What do you guys think ?
Old 01-12-2020, 04:16 PM
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I don't like the heat strips.
Old 01-12-2020, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sooner or later View Post
I don't like the heat strips.
I agree I had them in Florida and they do chew through electricity . But the theory is the heat pump is so efficient that the strips will rarely be on . But additional #6 wire would have to be run to power the strips .

I am leaning towards the dual fuel , a 16 SEER would probably handle 95 percent of the heating with minimal LP usage . Oh I confirmed that all ducts will be metal and insulated .
Old 01-12-2020, 04:38 PM
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Sounds like you are moving in the right direction.

Changing out the ductwork is an absolute no brainer. It is actually surprisingly inexpensive too. Make sure they are installing balancing dampers on each run.
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Old 01-12-2020, 04:54 PM
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I confirmed with the HVAC dude that the dual fuel is a single stage compressor , so if the categories are good/better/best it falls into the good . Not a deal breaker but food for thought . I did a LOT of research last night on inverter technology it does have a lot going for it.

The difference in price between the two is 200.00 so really nothing to speak of . I haven't made up my mind yet on which to go with . Spring isn't that far away and we generally need AC by then so I do have to do something fairly soon .
Old 01-13-2020, 07:07 AM
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What's your balance point setting? Meaning what temp does the HP drop out and the gas furnace take over? Then, based on your normal degree days in the winter, how often do you anticipate the outdoor temp getting below the balance point? If the answer is "not very often" I go with the higher efficiency system with electric backup heat. If they can do 3 stage heat where one is the HP only, 2 is the HP plus one row of electric and 3 is all electric resistance heat, I'd consider going that route.
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Last edited by cabmando; 01-13-2020 at 02:00 PM..
Old 01-13-2020, 01:56 PM
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Just received our electric bill , for the period of 11/26 - 12/27 we used 1058 KWH . Total cost with taxes $121.74 so a little over 8 cents a killowatt . But the majority of this time we had the heat pump deactivated and just using the LP furnace . Last year for the same time period we used 2254 KWH . Regardless of usage we pay 8-9 cents a killowatt .
Old 01-13-2020, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc View Post
Just received our electric bill , for the period of 11/26 - 12/27 we used 1058 KWH . Total cost with taxes $121.74 so a little over 8 cents a killowatt . But the majority of this time we had the heat pump deactivated and just using the LP furnace . Last year for the same time period we used 2254 KWH . Regardless of usage we pay 8-9 cents a killowatt .
What is your typical cost for propane per gallon?
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:02 PM
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Curios too, how many square feet are you heating/cooling?
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:06 PM
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Cab as you know LP prices vary and I only fill at " summer rates " . This past summer I topped off at $1.29 a gallon . I have a 500 gallon tank and when the heat pump is working properly I use very little propane. This year when I topped off it only took 99.6 gallons to get me an 80 percent fill .

In regards to the house it is a single level with full basement . The single level is 3 BR and 2 bath with 1,626 s.f. Currently there are no registers in the basement but part of the quotes I have received include adding two in the basement . One will be for a future bathroom maybe 8x10 and a game room 10x16 . All indications are a 3 ton is sufficient and the proper size .
Old 01-13-2020, 02:54 PM
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To me an 80K furnace is oversized for your area but I'm sure the person quoting did some sort of load calculation right? The AC seems about right to me being you're going to see a higher load than I would around here but for your size home I'd install a 60,000 BTU furnace. My home is a 2 story farmhouse that has about 2000 s.f and I heat it with a 60,000 BTU furnace. You don't want to oversize a condensing furnace.
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:02 PM
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Cab I will ask about the furnace size , he did walk the upstairs and asked square footage so I assume that was for load calculation . I think my current furnace is 75K . Doesn't make it right just thought I would mention it .
Old 01-13-2020, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc View Post
Cab I will ask about the furnace size , he did walk the upstairs and asked square footage so I assume that was for load calculation . I think my current furnace is 75K . Doesn't make it right just thought I would mention it .
The cost difference between the two would be negligible but it just seems a bit over sized to me. A lot of the time, a contractor will go with what's in the house even though the old one was over sized too. Don't recall you mentioning but is the existing a High efficiency with PVC vent? Not trying to muddy the water here.
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:12 PM
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Yes the old is high efficiency that exhausts via a PVC pipe . Per online BTU calculators I an in zone 2 with a suggestion of 35 - 40 BTU per square foot . So the math does suggest a 60K at 96 percent efficiency is a better match . You may be right about him sizing based on current furnace size . Thanks for bringing it up I will ask follow up questions .

However I did tell him to add the runs in the basement for future room additions . Those rooms would add at least another 260 sf which brings the total to 1886 . Take 1886 x 40 BTU and you get 75,440 suggested furnace size . The online estimators state it is ok to over size by 10 percent so the 80K is in the ballpark . I am just smart enough to be dangerous 😜
Old 01-13-2020, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabmando View Post
What's your balance point setting? Meaning what temp does the HP drop out and the gas furnace take over? Then, based on your normal degree days in the winter, how often do you anticipate the outdoor temp getting below the balance point? If the answer is "not very often" I go with the higher efficiency system with electric backup heat. If they can do 3 stage heat where one is the HP only, 2 is the HP plus one row of electric and 3 is all electric resistance heat, I'd consider going that route.
Cab I missed this posting from you sorry about that . I " think " the balance point was set at 35 degrees . I went onto a weather estimator website this morning to find out what the average lows are for my town for November through March and here they are .

Nov. 35
Dec. 28
Jan. 26
Feb. 28
Mar. 34

All remaining months are well above the balance point . Obviously because these are averages there are days that are colder and some that are warmer . My HVAC dude has an inverter style heat pump with electric strips and lives about 5 miles away from me , he said his heat strips have never come on in almost 2 years. I believe him but I am still hesitant . I am 90 percent sure I am going to go the dual fuel route but not 100 percent sure yet . I have one more company coming tomorrow to give me a quote , after that I will have enough data to make my decision .

Old 01-14-2020, 03:17 AM
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