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Quote:
Originally Posted by legion View Post
I had to upgrade from a minivan to a full-size van for roadtrips this year. We simply couldn't put 5 people and their luggage into a 7 passenger minivan. Travelling with small children means many, frequent, unexpected stops. If I had to worry about charging in addition, we'd probably just never make it to our destination.
Electric minivan with 7 seats and large battery (basically an electric 100kWh Dodge Caravan) would be a true "killer app" for my family. I hope Tesla makes one one day. Electric minivan could pack a lot of batteries without needing to look "sexy".

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Old 01-15-2020, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Bugsinrugs View Post
Can you estimate cost compared to a conventional Vehicle?
And ask yourself how much is your time worth.
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Old 01-15-2020, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Bugsinrugs View Post
Can you estimate cost compared to a conventional Vehicle?
I think a relatively full charge was on the order of $8. I'd estimate the energy costs were around 1/3 to 1/4 of what they are in the Saab I would otherwise have taken ('85 900 SPG), which requires at least 89 octane and gets probably high 20s mpg on trips.

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Originally Posted by pete3799 View Post
So how long are we talking for a supercharge?
The longest charge I had to stop for was 1:00 to 1:15. I stayed longer a few times to get the battery full-full, but with what I've since learned about how they charge, I'd leave when the car told me it was time to leave and I'd have saved at least an hour overall, I think.

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Originally Posted by MysticLlama View Post
One thing to note is that the longer range the battery the faster you can charge for a longer period of time before the taper. So a 100kwh battery would help with both range and charge speed.

It's also super helpful to charge overnight if at all possible when it's cold. On 120v/15amp, it'll only gain a couple miles per hour, but will keep the battery warmer and you can preheat the cabin for free, and that makes a big range difference the next day.

Also, Model 3s have a different battery composition which charges faster, that may or may not be making it into the X/S eventually.
Yes, I learned this afterwards. I did plug it into a wall outlet overnight at the house, which didn't add much but it was something. Friends of mine just bought a Model 3 and I'll be interested to know their experience. Their long-distance trips will mostly be between Chicago and Detroit or Flint, or downstate.

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Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
Sounds like a PITA for trips. Nice low and sleek for the highway and then your find it's best for local driving. Around here that points to a Model 3 big time. Those have never grown on me and I see at least 10 a day.
Yes, it was kind of a PITA but the car has really grown on me. I mean, it's a $120k car so it had better be nice Though I do notice a few interior details that feel a little cheap to me. If I were choosing one, a Model 3 would be a more convenient size for me, but I didn't realize until I saw someone opening the trunk at a charging station on this trip that they're not a hatchback. The Model S is a big car, but it's super-practical. I take a bike with me everywhere I go on road trips, and carrying my bike wasn't much harder than carrying it in the colossal cargo area of my (much smaller) Saab - fold seats down, open tailgate, insert bike.

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Originally Posted by MysticLlama View Post
Read that a little better, Temps probably weren't as much of a factor on the Atlanta side, I read it in the reverse. The 30ish miles overnight on a 120 still might have helped a bit, but it does take away the most of the big advantage of home charging.
it was really warm in Atlanta (60s in the day), and not particularly cold in Chicago or Detroit when I left either. The only particularly cold temps I saw were on the second half of my return drive, when it was below freezing.

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Originally Posted by tdw28210 View Post
Sounds like a great car for a traveling retiree or urban-only dweller. Might change when "super" charger networks become more prevalent.
My SO drives a lot around the Chicago area and flies a ton, but doesn't take many road trips. But she's taken this car and her previous Tesla on road trips with destinations ranging from Door County, WI to South Dakota. She's a big believer in EVs (she's an electrical engineer whose field is power distribution systems) and the compromises are fine with her.

I mentioned the Taycan to her recently and when I made clear it was Porsche's EV she became interested. She was going to replace her Tesla next year but when she decides she wants something she just does it, so she's going to test-drive one soon and who knows, maybe I'll be driving that on a road trip next

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Originally Posted by Tim Hancock View Post
Sounds ridiculous to me.... In a cheaper gas car, I simply don't have to worry about any the crap mentioned in this thread. I don't get why anyone spends big bucks to own a modern car that requires planning in regard to temps/charging rates/trip lengths/charging station locations/ect. Luckily we won't run out of gasoline in my lifetime.
Experiencing this firsthand is why I decided to take the car. (she literally gave me the car out from under her, calling an Uber to get home in, so I had about five minutes to make up my mind) I knew it would be different but I wanted to know whether it was a PITA for me, and how much. The Tesla is a nice car to drive, but I did miss the fun-to-drive of my Saab. Fun-to-drive is one reason why I own most of the cars that I do. I had hoped to make an overnight trip to Highlands, NC to visit my stepsister, though I didn't get time to do that. I would certainly have missed the FTD aspect on the roads up there, and would have had to leave the car in downtown highlands at a ChargePoint station and have her take me to the house. And if I had left for Chicago from Highlands I would have missed driving a couple of hours' worth of wonderful mountain roads in one of my fun cars. But many of the people who do make those choices that you mention above do it because the compromises are worth it for them for the benefits of the EVs they own. If I were a person who drove for daily transportation (I'm not - I ride my bikes everywhere, and use the CTA for half my work commute), a Model 3 would make sense for me as an Chicago-area car. But since I do use my bikes for that, that "modern car" slot needs to be something practical that is good for road trips, which is why I'm going to replace my Accord with a Jetta TDI wagon.

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Originally Posted by LakeCleElum View Post
Thanks for confirming what I have believed for a long time. Over the Thanksgiving holiday, I read of people waiting a few hours at charging stations just to have their turn.

To me, would only make sense as a commuter car. Even Tesla doesn't have charging stations on the back roads I often roam.....
I can't gainsay whatever stories you read, but this seems unlikely to me as an event that is anything but rare. I was traveling during high-travel periods (just before christmas and just after) and while many stations were well-used, only once did I see a station that was full. I got the second-to-last spot in a 10-unit station, and eventually one driver and then another had to wait. I think the longer of their two waits was about 10-15 minutes for an open slot.
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Last edited by Otter74; 01-15-2020 at 10:07 AM..
Old 01-15-2020, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by beepbeep View Post
Electric minivan with 7 seats and large battery (basically an electric 100kWh Dodge Caravan) would be a true "killer app" for my family. I hope Tesla makes one one day. Electric minivan could pack a lot of batteries without needing to look "sexy".
I think a Chrysler Pacifica plug-in hybrid is a pretty good approximation of this.
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:46 AM
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I'm pretty sure we're taking the EV plunge later this year. I put a deposit down on a Tesla Model Y for my wife, which they say will become available later this year. It's sort of a medium sized SUV type with a supposed 300 mile range (so I'll figure on 250). I think it will work out well for our needs. I have a couple of convenient 220V outlets for charging, & my wife's commute is 25 miles each way to her work. On a long trip around the area, we seldom exceed 60 to 100 miles, so we seldom have the need to drive anywhere near the range of the car. When we go on a trip we normally rent a car, so we'll continue with that, since car rentals are pretty economical. I'm wondering in the future when these cars are more prevalent, what the charging situation on the road will be like. Another thing is KA is already exploring ways to make EV owners pay more, since they don't participate in the gas tax. I think normal operation of an EV will be more expensive in ten years or so.
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:21 AM
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That's a model refresh back, there are currently 2 models available:

Long Range - $80k - 373 miles - 155mph - 3.7 0-60
Performance (w/Ludicrous) - $100k - 348 miles - 163mph - 2.4 0-60
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otter74 View Post
I think a Chrysler Pacifica plug-in hybrid is a pretty good approximation of this.
We had a non-hybrid Pacifica that we rented for a 3600 mile trip. A couple tanks we averaged 33mpg. Overall we were in the upper 20s, but it was a lot of highway miles. We also rented a Fusion hybrid recently for just over 1500 miles and the best tank we averaged just over 36mpg. Overall we were around 32mpg. I would bet the Pacifica hybrid would be very easy on gas for they type of vehicle it is.
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:30 AM
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You didnít mention if you used Autopilot on your trip. It makes long interstate trips much more relaxing.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Old 01-15-2020, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post
You didnít mention if you used Autopilot on your trip. It makes long interstate trips much more relaxing.


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Her car didn't have full Autopilot, and I wasn't about to hit that Apple Pay button on my phone to charge her $7000 It had the basic-level forward collision warning and lane departure assistance.
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Old 01-15-2020, 11:54 AM
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Its funny, the days of me doing non stop drives for several hours and a thousand miles except for gas are over. I get way to stiff, have to pee to often and am just not in that big of a hurry anymore.

I drive my Performance model S daily (charge at home) and its honestly to the point I hate having to go to the gas station when using my other cars. I really enjoy driving this car.

For a longer road trip, it was actually just the opposite of a PITA. I plug in the destination, the car tells me where to go, I charge to 80%, use the facilities and go. I wouldnt want to drive it across the country. But from LA to the bay Area or to Vegas it's just a non issue.

I currently have 47K on mine and the last time I charged it to 100% I had only lost 3 miles of charge from new. Car and batteries have been so absolutely trouble free, my wife plans to sell her car and buy model S as well.

BTW, The autopilot is cool, but I like to kind of make my way thru traffic. The AP is little to cautious for that during most of my driving.
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Old 01-15-2020, 03:58 PM
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Wife has a Model S 60 which is unfortunately only good for 200 miles. We took it to Austin in September to go to ACL. We watched the last show and drove back to Dallas at 9PM, after a quick super charge and dinner, we were on the road at 10Pm. Having auto pilot taking us back to Dallas around 80 miles an hour made it super relaxing. I wish other cars had such a capable auto-pilot, it makes long drives so easy.
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Old 01-15-2020, 06:00 PM
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I do like lane departure and forward collision warning, but I think full auto pilot would make me nervous. I guess you get used to it
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by flipper35 View Post
We had a non-hybrid Pacifica that we rented for a 3600 mile trip. A couple tanks we averaged 33mpg. Overall we were in the upper 20s, but it was a lot of highway miles. We also rented a Fusion hybrid recently for just over 1500 miles and the best tank we averaged just over 36mpg. Overall we were around 32mpg. I would bet the Pacifica hybrid would be very easy on gas for they type of vehicle it is.
Fwiw, my 2012 Mercedes E class diesel gets 40 mpg on the highway if I keep the cruise set below 2k (76mph) on the tach. Plenty safe, lane depture warning and other safety doo dads out the wazoo. You can buy 6 of them for the cost of a Tesla at the going rate. Plenty of low end grunt out of the turbo 6 too. Of course, your neighbors won't notice your "virtue" nearly as much.
Old 01-16-2020, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by LakeCleElum View Post
Thanks for confirming what I have believed for a long time. Over the Thanksgiving holiday, I read of people waiting a few hours at charging stations just to have their turn.

To me, would only make sense as a commuter car. Even Tesla doesn't have charging stations on the back roads I often roam.....
I still drive my 35 year old 911 on long trips every. On a regular basis I stop at some HUGE truck and car stop. They have more gas pumps than I can count, and never an issue to get gas. I always try to imagine that same facility with 40 to 50 electric cars trying to recharge at the same time. How big of a sub station will that require. Add in the 20 tractor trailer rigs moving goods across country, and it will need a power plant of it's own to supply the juice for everyone.

On one stop coming back from Boca Raton, FL last year we were on the turnpike. I needed to pee more than get gas, but I got gas while I was there. The place was huge, and cars getting gas were on two sides of the large building with a dozen restaurants to choose from. The trucks were in a separate area. It would be interesting to get the data on how much fuel they sell in one day, and calculate how much electricity that equates to. And that place is just one of many.
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by GH85Carrera View Post
On one stop coming back from Boca Raton, FL last year we were on the turnpike. I needed to pee more than get gas, but I got gas while I was there. The place was huge, and cars getting gas were on two sides of the large building with a dozen restaurants to choose from. The trucks were in a separate area. It would be interesting to get the data on how much fuel they sell in one day, and calculate how much electricity that equates to. And that place is just one of many.
A charging station that size would require it's own power plant. What would the power plant consume?
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MysticLlama View Post

Left Seattle...at a hotel in Medford

So on a typical 7 hr drive it added about an hour, because it would have been two gas stops and dinner in the BMW.
Huh?!? I agree Seattle to Medford is 7 hours, but it's 446 miles. How bad of gas mileage does your car get to have to stop twice for gas? My LS430 would make it on one tank of gas and have 75 miles to spare.
Old 01-16-2020, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Otter74 View Post
I think a Chrysler Pacifica plug-in hybrid is a pretty good approximation of this.
Unfortunately, it is not available in EU and early reliability reports seem to be somewhat sketchy. Personally, I am not really fond of FCA products. I would love to buy a hybrid/EV bus from Tesla or Toyota or Mercedes but not FCA.

(FIAT is generally regarded as bottom of the barrel here in EU and as far as I understand Chrysler is somewhat of the same in US.)
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Old 01-16-2020, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by legion View Post
A charging station that size would require it's own power plant. What would the power plant consume?
Kind of goes back to what I asked in post #11 "How many of these charging stations were powered by solar/hydro ?"

Trainloads of coal daily to power electrical generating plants, providing "green" energy for virtue signalers.
Old 01-17-2020, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by legion View Post
A charging station that size would require it's own power plant. What would the power plant consume?


Unicorn farts?

Likely Natural gas. Those are easy to put about anywhere, and donít need a big pile of coal.

The real point is that a huge amount of energy in gasoline and diesel is distributed every day at those places, and thousands just like it all across the country. We all know first hand how fast a gasoline car is refueled.

Electric cars are wonderful for commuters. Right now long distance drives are not really viable for most people. $120,000 Teslas do it with patience. My 1985 911 has been doing it for several decades.
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Old 01-17-2020, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by biosurfer1 View Post
Huh?!? I agree Seattle to Medford is 7 hours, but it's 446 miles. How bad of gas mileage does your car get to have to stop twice for gas? My LS430 would make it on one tank of gas and have 75 miles to spare.
V8 M3s are really terrible, and have a small tank to make it worse. The older M3, VW, 911, everything else I've ever had would be fine. It'd just make it on a single Eugene stop, but would immediately have to fill up again getting down there.

Got real old only being able to commute 4 days worth too.

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Old 01-17-2020, 08:53 AM
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