From my network...

Related, and perhaps of interest is this upcoming Webinar:

Technology Solutions Addressing COVID-19

Highlighting the Top 8 Startups Addressing the Coronavirus

https://www.plugandplaytechcenter.com/events/technology-solutions-addressing-covid-19/

Free of charge. I will try to attend.

Your surmising's are pretty spot on but I think you under estimate manufacturing output that the larger teams have in house and available through their network of small, dynamic suppliers

All F1 machine shops are capable of running 24hrs, speed is the name of the game before a car a car hits a track so programming/machining time will be compressed within time limits beyond most other industries

I've on more than one occasion designed a complex machined part finishing the design late at night only to be presented with finished components within less than a day

An F1 team I'm sure would out design, out machine and out manufacture any comparable sized defense company with regards to timescales

Speed of working is one of the reason's why Elon Musk came calling to F1 teams to try and poach people for his SpaceX program

20yrs of F1 design/design management makes me think any team would be an excellent asset for a country to have in contributing to a war effort

Captain Ahab Jr:

Thanks for posting that. My name is Mike. Pleased to meet you.

I have a pretty good idea about medical device and equipment manufacturing output after 40 years... all of these things require definitions to make comparisons.

Anytime I "connect" with anybody that has F1 tecnhical experience, my heart jumps. I just love those machines. One of my business partners got a private tour at McLaren last Summer-- the pictures he shared with me (with their permission) made my heart skip a beat.

I met an ex-Red Bull/Ferrari/McLaren F1 techical professional through these Forums back in '18... very nice young man and very accomplished. Hey helped confirm my ideas about teh level of techical depth in F1. He is an expert in machine learning-- I hope that he and his family, friends and colleagues are all okay in Spain.

Pleased to meet you Mike, pleasure is all mine,

Hope no one reads my post as F1 is the better than all other industries/engineering, it's not that good but is the best at what it does

I may well have worked with the guy you mentioned as F1 is quite a small world

Forgot to add over 10yrs ago a few colleagues and myself were invited to a NASA conference at Langley. Had to jump through quite a few security hoops to get on site.

The guys there were extremely interested in understanding more about our rapid speed of working. Was an extremely interesting trip for me, learnt a lot

I'm sure how ever F1 gets involved with increasing ventilator quantities/supply it will only be a benefit to the poor unfortunate few that need one to help them survive

Yeah I know a bit about high levels of tech in racing... including IMSA and Indy Car. But F1 tech is most interesting to me.

I have never been to Langley. My (late) best friend worked there for years after 9/11 on the CIA campus and I think there is a building there named after him.

The world is small.

I agree, whatever F1 is able to do will be highly welcomed.

And I hope that the "few" gets fewer in coming weeks and months.

I really enjoyed Amazon's "Grand Prix Driver" episode in which Honda was having trouble with getting their new ICE to fire up. The McLaren guys produced a 3-D drawing, papers to authorize production, and had it ready in less time than it took to get the factory in Sakura to sign the OK to produce the part.

Here's another way to look at it. THere are tens of thousands of 3D printers out there and people willing to help. It may mean that certain components are throw-away instead of reusable, but thats acceptable in my mind. ...it also may mean systems are less than perfect in some cases.

...but if you were gasping for breath and the hospital was out of commercial respirators, then the Doctor says "Hey we have this other respirator. Its not quite as good or quite as sterile, do you want to use it?"

...what's your response?

Sterile is pretty much a either or thing. Like slightly pregnant. Either it is, or isn't for the most part.

Exposing a critical patient to more bacteria is never ideal. That said, no doubt many people have had emergency tracheotomies with a ball point pen from someone's pocket and survived because of it.

I'm sure none of this is FDA approved...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8125219/Ventilators-modified-help-FOUR-coronavirus-patients-scientists-say.html

Update on collective F1 effort on ventilators: at least two streams being studied/manufactured: an existing, approved design, and another concept that sounds remarkably similar to the Pandemic Ventilator in the original post. I really hope we don't have to resort to the latter, but always have plan B, or C, or D...

The UK government published this, for those who are interested/can help:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-ventilator-supply-specification/rapidly-manufactured-ventilator-system-specification?fbclid=IwAR1RT35k95aqSxih9aH_r0LWg__ jhgmYUyOzGz2XRvS8Qy519ht_xNHub5g

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1584982014.jpg

You were absolutely right, Mike. They used the exact same wording regarding systems approach to this as highlighted...

Although I lack any medical background, I can at least get a sense of the technical requirements from this. I have to say, when I picture the situation in which a ventilator would be required based on its operational description, is certainly a grim one. Some of you already knew this; all the more respect for the people who are designing and operating them, and sympathies for those whose life will depend on it.

One more: https://oxvent.org/

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1584988108.jpg

https://dgiluz.wordpress.com/2020/03/23/its-working/amp/

https://dgiluz.files.wordpress.com/2...espiratori.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1585064731.jpg

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/w4Csqdxkrfw" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Fantastic! Thanks for posting.

Hopefully similar efforts will help, including efforts to create more of the type needed for intubation which are likely required for some patients.

University of Minnesota's effort - MacGyver style

https://www.startribune.com/university-of-minnesota-is-going-full-on-macgyver-against-covid-19/569000032/

Just to show that fast-tracked approval is possible if everyone pulls in the same direction:

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/148840/mercedesdesigned-breathing-aid-approved-by-nhs

So it's not a full combo deal ventilator but a CPAP machine as some of you mentioned early on in the thread.

Because I have massive experience with product development, plastics and life-saving medical device design (and diagnostic med, and treatment devices) I have not been in this thread much.

If we needed more gurneys would we challenge engineers to reinvent the wheel?

We have working vent designs. I have no doubt that manufacturing more of those is the most expeditious path to more vents. That snorkel mask is cringe worthy.

^^^ Hear, hear!

Mixing terminology in healthcare is deadly. Not "can be", but IS deadly.

No one is making a fully functional, homemade ventilator. They are attempting to make respirators. A rather significant difference.

What Won posted appears to be a certainly viable....respirator, for a conscious and cooperating patient. See the smile and thumbs up?

Try strapping that thing on someone in distress, gasping for breaths. Or possibly even combative.

( here's a side assignment for everyone, take a look at how a toddler is restrained to acquire an x-ray image... then report back )

Those not in healthcare attempting to build an "open source ventilator" makes about as much sense as the Jiffy Lube guy does on an F1 Team.

You might be surprised...

Dyson designed a ventilator, a full blown one as far as I understand, but still need approval. Part of F1's "Project Pitlane" effort is to ramp up the production of existing (real) ventilator designs. Elsewhere, people like Daimler group are doing what they can to help.

Assuming some of these are actually being used (none of us are in Italy to verify, are we?), and that their medics are also qualified professionals, then I think it just goes to show how dire the situation is. Personally, I would rather have the scuba mask connected to F1 CPAP machine than nothing.

Luna Rossa the America's Cup team are making face shields:
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There's the difference. I'm speaking generally, you're pointing to outliers. Sure, a former JL guy could eventually be on a F1 Team. But are you aware of the employee turnover at a JL? Those guys can barely show up wearing pants.

Please report back with facts on said "ventilator", I have to presume it's a respirator.

Please, update your Living Will and your Power of Attorney on your wishes.

Have you ever been intubated and on a vent? Have you ever visited someone on one?
All due respect, I'm not ridiculing, I'm actually curious if you have?

This is a unique point in time for us all. And the web is a fantastic place.
Just be aware of keyboard warriors touting bs opinions. Sure, I may have a few, but they're usually car or beer related. I leave the Dr. stuff to doctors.

Also, every single Ventilator OEM has tons of spare parts to repair and maintain their product. That said, they do not have every single component lying around to assemble vents completely.

Think about a car or truck. They have a gazillion spare parts for repairs and such.
Build a complete car with those spares? Not a chance.

Medical devices are the same way.

If an F1 company or GMC or Ford can assist with building additional spares while OEM focuses on the items missing, then good. Press on.

But to say F1 or any other car company is going to build a vent from scratch is absurd.

There was an interesting article in today's paper about a company that makes just some of the components of a ventilator.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1585586130.jpg

This is a special type of glass, with the holes "drilled" by ultrasonic machining. Very high precision manufacturing that is not going to be done in the basement of some guys house. Certainly the F1 teams or GM will be able to do it, but of course it is just one part of a complex machine.

Yet, someone will read that and think "Hey, they're making vents out of glass now! I can do that in my basement, for cheap!"

:(

I was on a vent for 24 hrs post neck surgery, probably due to age, weight and asthma. I was out the entire time. When the woke me up to pull the tube out of my throat I could not have cared less. If I need a vent because of Covid 19, please put me to sleep so I can go quietly and hopefully they use something better than this....

https://youtu.be/D6yTAD36RB8

Mike, that's how the vast majority are on vents.
Being fully conscious on a vent is a no go...unless fully restrained.

With the exception of paralysis patients. They can be fully awake, but for obvious reasons.

You think the gag reflex is strong, try existing with intubation. Patients will, and do, grab and pull immediately.

Your video is a crude respirator, at best. ;)

While we're at it, lets throw in "put me asleep for that".

Take a look at exactly what it takes to accomplish that. Folks generally have no idea how close to death they are while under anesthesia.

And, just how many times the monitoring Anesthesiologist pulls a patient from that line of death, and then repeats that process throughout the surgery.

Being sedated enough to prevent a patient from ripping out the tube takes strong drugs.
They are horrible when used for long periods.

No one wants that. During this challenging time, the term vent, respirator, crank up production, anyone in a shop can do it, F1, GMC whatever...is just absurd.

If they mean, "making some parts" for vents, then say that.

Cuz they damn sure ain't making an actual ventilator.

Don,

Agreed, anesthesiologists are unreal at what they do. The video of the vent was for entertainment purposes only.

However, if I'm on a vent due to this virus I am glad I will be out.

Cheer

Btw, Anesthesiologists are not present when putting a patient on a vent, prescribing physician will also prescribe the strong sedation that will be needed.

Do not confuse that with what's used during General Anesthesia for surgery.

I'm speaking to everyone, not just Mike.

So one of the reasons ventilators are so expensive is that they are life-saving equipment which means that tons of redundancy and reliability must be built into them. todays litigous society.

If someone dies because a home-grown one fails? Hospitals aren't going to take liability for that.

..a much more promising approach seems to be adaptors that allow ventilators to scale up to multiple patients. I think this is a much more realistic approach.

These are challenging times.

I can envision lots of litigation as the pandemic proceeds and in the aftermath. I can envision that even with austere mechanisms to "flatten the curve," there may be needs for huge bailout dollars for hospitals, et cetera. Remember, they generally operate on some pretty tight margins ...

Ayway, I am pretty sure that global efforts to help with respect to vent availability through a combination of new designs and expansion of manufacturing of existing designs is being folks highly expert in regulation and risk management, and bunches of government lawyers are also being consulted.

It is all very challenging.

Ventilator built by Airbus and F1 approved in the UK

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52309294

New, simple ventilator out of Austin TX. Going to the FDA for approval.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/air-boost-begins-large-scale-153700964.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9rRlLhx7lw&t=

Not sure if they will be needed, at least in the USA, at this time, this pandemic. But if if gets approved, may be useful in other countries or our next pandemic.

Where is there a shortage?

Let's build testing kits !

LOL

nice!

I heard these guys are back with testing kits: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29459896

The UK government pulled the plug on the Project Pitlane "automated breathing bag" device very similar to the one posted above. Their logic being the situation has changed and the resource would be better spent on ramping up real ventilator production. A local company, Penlon, has been running 24hr shifts with a lot of furloughed F1 staff and others volunteering for this purpose. I think we agreed that this was the best approach when we thought there would be a ventilator shortage. Good effort from everyone and every company involved in this all over the world.

I'm lucky to have been part of a small group at work designing equipment to keep the medics safe from virus-laden aerosol. We were looking at sensors and came across this from Honeywell catalogue. I thought if anyone still had any doubt as to why a ventilator is not something you can cook up in the backyard, this makes it pretty clear. Thank you pros.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1588085635.jpg

Part of our required reading. Some good info here I thought, straight from the front line. I think you just have to sign up:
https://www.gotostage.com/channel/c4d2288975ce453daf8d9e09860c8da4

It's good that the situation has not graduated to a place where automated hand bag ventilation was required. That would have definitely been a desperate spot.

Mechanical ventilation has gone through a few generations and I believe the most advanced ventilators are now using turbine compressors for positive pressure (or at least the most advanced anesthesia machine ventilators do AFAIK). Sick people require advanced ventilation techniques. While bellows and pistons were leading edge at one time, technology has advanced.

Did everyone get the same daily memo ?

Yes, it is good that we have not had to use any of these DIY ventilators, yet. But:

- The pandemic is not over yet
- The pandemic does not just affect the developed world
- There will be future pandemics and these designs may be beneficial then

I hope that all the DIY designs for ventilators, masks, face sheilds etc are being saved or archived somewhere. This would of course require long term thinking which is always in short supply.

I'm going to respectfully disagree. Instead, we (the US) should maintain an adequate supply of "real", proven ventilators, masks, face shields, swabs, etc. and have them strategically located in numerous places to be distrubuted to states as needed. Making it up as you go along would be a disaster like this has been. We need to learn from this....

But "we" probably won't :(...

I agree that we should keep a stockpile of real ventilators and other medical equipment. But, as you pointed out, we probably will not, at least not as time goes on and the pandemic becomes more of a distant memory. I am a realist.

The thing to think about is, we now have 3D printing which is relatively new, what new technology will there be in the future which would allow for the creation of much more complex devices than we can today. And faster.

To add to my original post, what really needs to be saved, are the requirements, specifications, or "the why" ventilators are designed (hardware and software) the way they are.