Pelican Parts Forums - Navy pulls captain of TR

Pelican Parts Forums (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/)

- Off Topic Discussions (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/)

- - Navy pulls captain of TR (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/1056773-navy-pulls-captain-tr.html)

4th aircraft carrier with reported positive tests of covid-19.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/04/07/nimitz-becomes-4th-aircraft-carrier-covid-19-case-report.html

Be interesting to see how the other CO's handled their particular situation and how Captain Crozier's actions influenced the actions on the other carriers. The most common/general information available to the public seems to be from the USS TR. The other 3 carriers, not so much.

Anyone know if other outbreaks (MERS, SARS, et. al) happened on carriers in the past? If so, there should have been a contingency plan/SOP developed, right? What made the covid-19 incident on/wrt the USS TR unique/different that forced Captain Crozier's hand?

Truth be told, none of us will really know. But interesting to discuss and think about. Thank you to all participants for your thoughts.

I posted a few pages back that on an informal poll, many of the senior Sailors that I work with were all for the Skipper's removal. Interesting that today, only one Sailor from the earlier crowd remains with that opinion. All others have said today that they have determined that CAPT Crozier is a hero; submarine, SWO, INTEL officers, aviators. Damned straight. I remain: he is an American hero.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seahawk (Post 10826927)

I have "cruised" on a number of Navy ships, was ships company during what is called a "disassociated sea tour". I did get to fly during that tour so that was a bonus.

Ships CO's walk a very fine line between absolute responsibility (and authority - Captain's Mast still exists) for his or her crew and ship to being at the mercy of the "chain" of command, often a very capricious and addled chain.

I also qualified at Officer of the Deck Underway (OOD) and had my own watch section. "Driving" the ship, especially with an embarked Flag Staff, is often a cluster foxtrot of comic proportions. It is what ships company, and the CO, deal with everyday.

I had the Chief of Staff, an O-6 with zero sense of humor, for an embarked Admiral call me on the bridge: "The Flag is eating, find a better heading for seas..."

Me (LT me): "Sir, we have an underway replenishment tomorrow at 0630 and I need to maintain course for the rendezvous..."

Him: "How is that my problem...you will figure it the F out or you won't...give me a better ride, now, LT..."

I (we) figured it the f out. My CO was asleep and the Junior Officer of the Deck, a Warrant Officer from the Brown Water Navy in Vietnam, my friend, made sure. God Bless Danny B, a Rappahannock Tribe member. Best guy I met in the Navy.

I have seen it work and watched the slow decimation of morale based on CO and Staff actions. I also worked for a guy that became VCNO, a 4 Star. He and I became friends and he was very giving in how to manage information and embarked staffs, the "big picture".

All that said, it has become apparent to me that the CO of the TR knew what he was doing and the inevitable fallout from his actions.

The TR was not his first command at sea. He knew.

It is also increasingly apparent that the Acting Navy Sec was/is a buffoon.

Should that get the CO of the TR his job back? No.

Edit: Here is a little tale from the way back machine.

Admiral Spruance, if you don't know about him, read about him, amazing dude, ran a ship aground in Pearly Harbor. No way he survives that little dust up in today's Navy, but he did then.

The rest is in all the books.

Paul I agree with your assessment except I don't know the conversation between Captain Crozier and the chain of command above him. If they just gave him the "carry on with your mission and monitor the situation" quite possible I believe. Then I believe he was justified in sending the email, there is no such thing as social distancing on a CV, check out the berthing compartments the mess decks and work spaces they are not made for comfort. It doesn't take long say an out break in CIC personnel and you become combat ineffective pretty quickly.
oh and this food for thought
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brett_Crozier

Good example. Or, what if an outbreak occurred in the engineering personnel running the TR’s nuke power plants? That would be completely FUBARed.

So now Croizer may be reinstated on the Roosevelt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by atcjorg (Post 10827467)

I don’t have any issue with his actions as long as he understood the import...which of course he did. His command, his call. He knew and I respect that.

He won’t get his command back and I don’t belief he should. That doesn’t make him less of a leader or means he was wrong. Subordinate commanders are just that, however, subordinate: I believe in the chain of command yet understand how often it fails. He did his job but that came with a price.

We all, those who have served, have stories. Btw, I have the utmost respect for those that disagree with me on this...some really fine people.

Lastly, I did a tour at BUPERs and my civilian assistant, who I talked with last week, knew him well and had a lot of great things to say about him when he was at BUPERs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by atcjorg (Post 10827467)

Agreed...but the big problem with that theory is that no one has made that case. The link you posted says:

"... on March 24, 2020 when reports indicated that three members of the crew had tested positive for COVID-19. The next day the number of affected sailors was increased to eight, and within a few days it was "dozens." The sailors reportedly became ill at sea, two weeks after a port call at Danang, Vietnam. The initial cases were airlifted to a military hospital. Theodore Roosevelt was ordered to Guam, where she docked on March 27, and all 5,000 aboard were ordered to be tested for the virus. About 100 affected sailors were offloaded, and the rest of the crew remained on board. Crozier wanted to have most of the crew immediately taken ashore, saying it was impossible to prevent the spread of the virus in the close quarters of the ship. However, his superior, Rear Admiral Stuart P. Baker, disagreed, feeling such an action was impractical and too drastic.

On March 30, Crozier emailed a four-page memorandum to 10 Navy officers..."

If correct, this is what seems to have happened. The first case was March 24. All ill were airlifted out as identified. The TR sailed almost immediately to Guam and arrived on the 27th, docked, and all 5000 were tested and any other sick were immediately offloaded. 3 days later, Cozier sent out his classified email through unclassified means, going around the chain of command (six days from the first case with everyone tested and no known ill on board...and the ship in port).