Sweden Dealing with Covid the Right Way

[ckissick]

True enough.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by McLovin

The numbers thus far are interesting.
But Sweden a “failure?”
Hard to say that.
Remember, this was projected to be a “global pandemic and deaths of epic proportions.”
Sweden had minimal shutdowns.
Their schools largely stayed open.
People still went to work, and they could because all the primary schools were open so childcare issues were avoided. They are projecting a 4% hit on their GDP.
So has it been the “debacle” as predicted (by most here and by most of the world?)
Objectively, no.
2300 deaths out of 10 million people thus far isn’t exactly the killings fields.
Half of those have been in nursing homes with the very elderly and sick. Like everyone, they admit they could have done a better job with regard to that.
Time will of course tell a more complete story. For example, if there’s “second waves” as other countries start to reopen, Sweden is likely to not experience as much of that since they’ve largely remained open.

I think the question is why do you not think Sweden's strategy is a failure. It certainly is compared to its neighboring countries, the only true apples to apples comparison. Clearly, given the numbers, it's a failure as compared to all three neighboring countries.

[McLovin]

Because success or failure isn’t based on just the number of deaths. In the real world one has to balance that against the costs (both monetary and otherwise, and long term and short term).
2300 deaths out of 10 million people, while maintaining your economy, keeping kids in school, keeping your borders open, taking a hit of only 4% of your GDP, keeping business open, not destroying people’s livihoods and lives, not mortgaging the next generation’s future, essentially eliminating the “second wave” concerns (their neighbors are going to have increased deaths when they reopen) etc. seems to me like a success, not failure.
I believe they view it as a success at this point. Many, including most here, predicted they would be swamped with body bags and would have to fall in line with a lockdown like the US.
It’s pretty clear to any objective observer that Sweden has exceeded expectations. And that no lockdown will happen there. They’ve gotten beyond the curve.

[RWebb]

Isly & Mcoven would have to be willful ignorant or purposely dishonest if they don't move to Sweden

[island911]

Originally Posted by McLovin

I know this is good news and most don’t want to hear it.

I don’t understand that. But carry on.

Oh.. Snap.

so true.

Some are so married to the fear propaganda that they just can not let good news/ facts creep in.

...bitterly clinging to gloom and doom.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by RWebb

Isly & Mcoven would have to be willful ignorant or purposely dishonest if they don't move to Sweden

True, but then you’re willfully ignorant or purposely dishonest if you don’t move to Denmark (4 deaths per 100k), Norway (4/100k) or Finland (4/100k).

The US is a death trap! (18 deaths per 100k).

Island 🌴 and I will help ya pack. 😃

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by McLovin

Because success or failure isn’t based on just the number of deaths. In the real world one has to balance that against the costs (both monetary and otherwise, and long term and short term).
2300 deaths out of 10 million people, while maintaining your economy, keeping kids in school, keeping your borders open, taking a hit of only 4% of your GDP, keeping business open, not destroying people’s livihoods and lives, not mortgaging the next generation’s future, essentially eliminating the “second wave” concerns (their neighbors are going to have increased deaths when they reopen) etc. seems to me like a success, not failure.
I believe they view it as a success at this point. Many, including most here, predicted they would be swamped with body bags and would have to fall in line with a lockdown like the US.
It’s pretty clear to any objective observer that Sweden has exceeded expectations. And that no lockdown will happen there. They’ve gotten beyond the curve.

Why would anyone predict they would be swamped with body bags? I don't know of any data that supports that.

I guess we have different standards for success. Sweden at 2300 deaths and Finland at 400 (prorated for population) deaths, doesn't seem all that successful.

Maybe they get a ribbon for participating but clearly Sweden's neighbors have succeeded in keeping the death rate in check, Sweden is below average at best.

I guess you can post Sweden's economic success in a few months.

[McLovin]

Yep, we’ve reached the conclusion of our conversation and at this point we’d have to, as they says “agree to disagree.”

(Although I do agree that things will, for sure, become a lot more clear re Sweden’s approach v it’s neighbors in the next month, 3 months, 6 months, year etc. For that we can only wait and see).

[island911]

Originally Posted by McLovin

True, but then you’re willfully ignorant or purposely dishonest if you don’t move to Denmark (4 deaths per 100k), Norway (4/100k) or Finland (4/100k).

The US is a death trap! (18 deaths per 100k).

Island �� and I will help ya pack. ��

Well, because I CARE more for the PARFessor than you, I will gladly help him pack to live in Ethiopia. - much safer than the above, with only a .03 per million death rate.

Maybe Syria with .2/mil ...

[island911]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

Keep in mind there are significant differences between Sweden and the US.

They actually trust and believe in their leadership and mostly do as told.

The US doesn't have that luxury.

That is simply not true.

"Leadership" was not what drove people to do the covid cower. It was FEAR!

This all first broke up in the PNW. People took big action well before any govt official told them what to do.

[ckissick]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

I think the question is why do you not think Sweden's strategy is a failure. It certainly is compared to its neighboring countries, the only true apples to apples comparison. Clearly, given the numbers, it's a failure as compared to all three neighboring countries.

Because of the reasons I described above. In the long run, the neighbors may catch up, but with a much worse economy. Am I certain of this? No. Time will tell. The Swedes are putting practicality above emotion, something that doesn't sit well with a lot of people.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by ckissick

The Swedes are putting facts and science above emotion, something that doesn't sit well with a lot of people.

Fixed it for ya

[RWebb]

It would be helpful if people did not make comparisons that are wholly unwarranted. Sweden needs to be compared with countries having similar demographics, like Finland or Denmark.

[island911]

LOL,

oh webby...

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

Keep in mind there are significant differences between Sweden and the US.

They actually trust and believe in their leadership and mostly do as told.

The US doesn't have that luxury.

Hey sol, I gotta disagree there.
I’ve been amazed at how trusting and compliant Americans have been.
Including generally on the posts on this board.
Much more trust in the government and willingness to comply than I would have thought.

[island911]

splitting a hair here, but on our govt's actions, those have not been Leadership.

Dictatorship perhaps, but in no way did our govt lead by, for example, furloughing govt workers; or taking massive pay-cuts. THAT would have been leading. ...setting an example for others to willingly follow.

But at least they chanted "we're all in this together."

[Rikao4]

trust..
I doubt that..
few options more likely..
What we saw & got was fear mongering ..
and confusion // unpreparedness by just about every agency ..
and it hasn't let up..
depending on your cable options..
I can see tit's and tail on the beaches of Fl..
or folks on vents in NY..
so..
I'm going to play with my dogs and a swim..

Rika

[KFC911]

Rika wins !

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by McLovin

Yep, we’ve reached the conclusion of our conversation and at this point we’d have to, as they says “agree to disagree.”

(Although I do agree that things will, for sure, become a lot more clear re Sweden’s approach v it’s neighbors in the next month, 3 months, 6 months, year etc. For that we can only wait and see).

Clearly, yes. In your world, we are both in a hot dog eating contest. I eat 6 times as many dogs as you but am pretty sick at the end of it. Because I was sick, you won. In my world, I ate more hot dogs (or 6X fewer deaths), so I won.

Go figure.

[RWebb]

Magdalena Andersson, Sweden's finance minister, said on Wednesday GDP could shrink by 10% this year and unemployment rise to 13.5%.

That is no better than other countries, tho the long term impact is yet to be known.