Sweden Dealing with Covid the Right Way

[wayner]

One of the things that I find positive that Sweden did that Canada did not do is that Sweden (according to that interview) took "swift action to protect the old and frail"

Meanwhile here in Canada a high percentage of those infected and dead were (and are) from nursing homes with contract workers. The workers take shifts in multiple facilities so became spreaders, and then it raced through many old age homes.

That is now being addressed, but it sounds like Sweden got that part right much sooner than our country did.
It was a while before the government realized that was happening.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Eric 951

You said "success is measured by deaths", without a vaccine there will continue to be virus deaths, so what is your solution?

Success is measured by containment of death just like any other disease.

The solution here in Boston and other parts of the country is working. Lockdown, mandatory masks, essential business open, people working from home, etc.

When you go to a park, everyone is respecting the 6 foot rule. I would say we keep doing this. A vaccine is 6 months to a year away with the entire world working on it. Maybe sooner. But I don't think later.

Other countries have successfully locked down, contained the spread and reopened with precautionary measures. We should follow that model.

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by wayner

One of the things that I find positive that Sweden did that Canada did not do is that Sweden (according to that interview) took "swift action to protect the old and frail"

Meanwhile here in Canada a high percentage of those infected and dead were (and are) from nursing homes with contract workers. The workers take shifts in multiple facilities so became spreaders, and then it raced through many old age homes.

That is now being addressed, but it sounds like Sweden got that part right much sooner than our country did.
It was a while before the government realized that was happening.

Everybody missed on the impact it would have on nursing homes. When the final data comes out the percentage of deaths out of nursing homes is going to be a staggering amount. We are already getting glimpse of the numbers.

[wayner]

I wonder how long before we start hearing that mandatory masks are taking my freedom?

Im sure there will be a segment of the population, I just hope its a small segment and that most people are really more considerate of others than the few.

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

Success is measured by containment of death just like any other disease.

The solution here in Boston and other parts of the country is working. Lockdown, mandatory masks, essential business open, people working from home, etc.

When you go to a park, everyone is respecting the 6 foot rule. I would say we keep doing this. A vaccine is 6 months to a year away with the entire world working on it. Maybe sooner. But I don't think later.

Other countries have successfully locked down, contained the spread and reopened with precautionary measures. We should follow that model.

I agree. We must open up or the economic consequences will be disastrous. But when we do we will see hospitalizations and deaths start to climb back up which will then start to narrow the gap with Sweden. Their deaths will be on the decline while ours will be on the increase.

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by wayner

I wonder how long before we start hearing that mandatory masks are taking my freedom?

Im sure there will be a segment of the population, I just hope its a small segment and that most people are really more considerate of others than the few.

It is already happening. There are a number of peeps on my other board raising hell. One guy is openly upset about having to wear them on airlines.

Here are his posts.

"Tip of the iceberg. Just wait. Got an email from American Airlines today saying you have to wear a mask while flying. I have over 2 million miles with them, but **** em', I ain't flying American until they knock the stupid **** the **** off."

I then mentioned that all airlines were going to be requiring them, his reply.

"Guess I'll be driving.

Like they're gonna enforce that. What will they do when dumb*** pulls his mask down to sneeze? Or wears it under his nose? Or has a mask so filthy and nasty you wish he would take it off? Or at 35K feet dude goes **** this, I ain't wearing this ****." Stupid, not effective, and a completely PC move."

[craigster59]

We went out for a drive yesterday to a local rural nursery that supplies the majority of roses in So Cal. Every year at the beginning of May they have "Rose Days" where you can see every variety of roses in bloom. Figured it was cancelled due to virus.

Called before we left and they said they were open with "social distancing", so we figured we'd swing by and pick up a few plants.

The place was busier than I've ever seen, I was blown away. People respecting distance, wearing masks at appropriate times. No problems.

We decided to drive to Ojai and pick up a pizza to take home, took the backroad from Santa Paula to Ojai. People on bikes and motorcycles out enjoying the sunshine. Passed St. Thomas Aquinas College where there is a hiking trail that takes you back to "Devil's Punchbowls". I've never seen so many parked cars at the trailhead in probably 30 years.

I see larger pushback on the horizon.

[wayner]

Replying to Sooner or later

The dumb people actually inject chlorox, and the smart ones think their smarter than everyone else, and it tough to tell the difference sometimes

Hopefully the majority of people are neither too “smart” or too dumb

Having said that I remember as a kid, all the neighborhood moms sent us kids over to a friends place to share the same water glass. He had chicken pox, it was summer, and the thinking was to just get it over with while it was convenient and wouldn’t impact our school year

Maybe there should be Water glass stations set up for people like your friend :-)

[island911]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

Success is measured by containment of death just like any other disease..

East cost of the US... talk about FAIL! (using your singular metric)

Clearly you all are far more reckless than Sweden.

What are you over there, 10x more reckless than Sweden?

[ckissick]

One doctor's take, FWIW:

I was talking to a Stanford doctor yesterday. He said emphatically, "There won't be any vaccine." They've never been able to develop a vaccine for MERS or SARS, despite extensive international efforts.

The doctor said the only solution is to let it go through the population and we'll be fine in a year or less, but with some measures to slow the rate of infection, as they are doing in Sweden. We need to safely get to herd immunity, and the sooner, the better.

I asked the doctor why so many experts like Fauci are telling us there will be a vaccine. His response, "They're lying."

[island911]

Yep.

If anyone wants to ensure that they don't get this virus they can order online an N95 mask, gloves and eye protection. Oh, and wash their damn hands.

This shut down is a farce. But at least some people believe that it is the only thing that works (even in the face of evidence to the contrary)

[Sooner or later]

SARS and MERS took months just the develop the genome sequence. It took far less time for Covid 19. By the time SARS and MERS vaccines were ready for testing they died out so the research ground to a halt. Money and resources were better spent elsewhere.

[legion]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

I agree. We must open up or the economic consequences will be disastrous. But when we do we will see hospitalizations and deaths start to climb back up which will then start to narrow the gap with Sweden. Their deaths will be on the decline while ours will be on the increase.

Which is why this was all a farce. When faced with a choice between having people die, or having the same number of people die and have a depressions, our leaders chose the latter.

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by legion

Which is why this was all a farce. When faced with a choice between having people die, or having the same number of people die and have a depressions, our leaders chose the latter.

To me, as bad as it sounds, I am more concerned about hospital capacity than deaths.

You need to keep a lid on it to keep them from being overwhelmed. Sweden took it seriously enough that they tripled ICU capacity to deal with the excess.

Some areas of the country have gone far overboard. Other areas needed a tightly capped lid. One cure for all is not the appropriate action.

[legion]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

SARS and MERS took months just the develop the genome sequence. It took far less time for Covid 19. By the time SARS and MERS vaccines were ready for testing they died out so the research ground to a halt. Money and resources were better spent elsewhere.

Efforts still continued. The vaccines that have been developed are not well tolerated by those who get them. (My understanding is that they have side effects like severe nausea and diarrhea.) They also don't confer a minimally acceptable level of immunity.

In other words, the current vaccines for coronaviruses will cause you to have it coming out both ends for a few days after which you probably won't have much immunity.

Locking people in their homes until there is a vaccine is "magical thinking".

[Ziggythecat]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

Like they're gonna enforce that. ."

Can you say....Federal Air Marshall ?
How about No Fly List

I think all will comply.

[legion]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

To me, as bad as it sounds, I am more concerned about hospital capacity than deaths.

You need to keep a lid on it to keep them from being overwhelmed. Sweden took it seriously enough that they tripled ICU capacity to deal with the excess.

Some areas of the country have gone far overboard. Other areas needed a tightly capped lid. One cure for all is not the appropriate action.

They have laid off most of the medical staff in my area. There was nothing for them to do as "routine procedures" were banned. We did have several people die of cancer as they were not allowed to have surgery or begin chemotherapy under our governor's orders. I'm sure their deaths were classified as coronavirus.

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by legion

Efforts still continued. The vaccines that have been developed are not well tolerated by those who get them. (My understanding is that they have side effects like severe nausea and diarrhea.) They also don't confer a minimally acceptable level of immunity.

In other words, the current vaccines for coronaviruses will cause you to have it coming out both ends for a few days after which you probably won't have much immunity.
.

Source?

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by Ziggythecat

Can you say....Federal Air Marshall ?
How about No Fly List

I think all will comply.

Your editing makes it sound like I made the statement.

[Ziggythecat]

Interesting conversations regarding there being at least two permutations of the virus, with New York getting the European version from Italy, which is more virulent than the virus from WuHan.