Quandry for the US Navy

[John Rogers]

I read an article that the CO of the Teddy R might get reinstated. So do they do that after he gets cleared of Covid-19 or be stupid and do it while he in in the hospital? If I were the CNO I would say nothing until he gets a discharge from the hospital and as he walks out the door give him a set of orders to be CO of the Teddy R. I would have a staff car waiting to drive him over to the officers brow and drop him off so he can walk up the brow with a live bos'n Piping Roosevelt arriving! Hope so anyways!

[fintstone]

He should get a discharge from the Hospital...and then the Navy.

[Arizona_928]

^^^
+1

[RSBob]

I would have preferred he would he would have continued his pleas to his tone-deaf superiors while the entire crew got sick. sacrificing his crew by obeying COC is the least he could do because it is a well known fact the not doing so will lead to the complete breakdown of the military order and complete mayhem. We don’t want people to think for themselves when lives are at stake because, “Ours is not to question why, ours is but to do and die.”

[wdfifteen]

He should be quietly reassigned. This soap opera doesn’t need another chapter, it’s been enough of an embarrassment already.

[Wetwork]

He was salty enough to know the consequence.

I served with and admired several commands that got relieved for jumping the chain of command during my 20 years active USCG. To this day I'd do anything for those guy's who took the chop, to point out issues nobody higher gave a $hit about, that we needed help with. In my experience it often seemed like the upper commands just got embarrassed in public. Period... So to save face the "whistle-blower" was relieved for cause or lack of confidence.

The CO knew the deal. He knew what would happen. He made that choice to be in command of a Carrier and be prepared to take a chop for his crew. That's what good leader's do. Yep, he got chopped for good reason.

Desperation? Illness? Loyality? I don't know? Wasn't in the Wardroom. I'm not positive having not read up if he personally, actually sent the message in the clear. But as the CO it's his responsibility to take the fall for letting the world know his boat had a nice big bull's eye on it because they are too sick to complete the mission.

There had to be other way's right? I hope and pray higher up's actually listen to their CO's of nuke Carrier's?... But quietly into the night sailor, you got the chop. Command is a lonely cold *****. You did or allowed what you thought was necessary for your crew.

Command has consequence.-WW

ps. Several times in my career, I made decisions I was positive were career-ender's for my shipmates. It's just the way it is.

[asphaltgambler]

My take not being in the service but very familiar with business and leadership. It would be detrimental to place the Commander back in the same spot even if everyone in the process was wrong. The men and women below him would never 'see' him the same and question all subsequent decisions from the other higher ups.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by RSBob

I would have preferred he would he would have continued his pleas to his tone-deaf superiors while the entire crew got sick. sacrificing his crew by obeying COC is the least he could do because it is a well known fact the not doing so will lead to the complete breakdown of the military order and complete mayhem. We don’t want people to think for themselves when lives are at stake because, “Ours is not to question why, ours is but to do and die.”

If reports are correct, the chain of command's responsive was pretty impressive. The first case was March 24 where 3 sailors tested positive and 5 on the 25th. All infected were immediately airlifted to a military hospital as soon as they were identified.

The TR was redirected immediately to Guam and en route, more people tested as infected and were airlifted out. The TR arrived at Guam on the 27th (just 3 days after the first case), docked, and all 5000 were tested and any other infected were immediately offloaded.

3 days later (March 30), Cozier sent out his classified email through unclassified means, going around the chain of command (just 6 days from the first case) with the ship in port, everyone tested, and no known infected on board....because he wanted everyone off the ship immediately...and his superiors did not come up with a place to house 5000 sailors in Guam fast enough to suit him.

He made his choice to go political to get what he wanted...and if he did not realize that he was choosing the hill for his military career to die on, he is too big a fool to be driving a dinghy, much less an aircraft carrier.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by fintstone

If reports are correct, the chain of command's responsive was pretty impressive. The first case was March 24 where 3 sailors tested positive and 5 on the 25th. All infected were immediately airlifted to a military hospital as soon as they were identified.

The TR was redirected immediately to Guam and en route, more people tested as infected and were airlifted out. The TR arrived at Guam on the 27th (just 3 days after the first case), docked, and all 5000 were tested and any other infected were immediately offloaded.

3 days later (March 30), Cozier sent out his classified email through unclassified means, going around the chain of command (just 6 days from the first case) with the ship in port, everyone tested, and no known infected on board....because he wanted everyone off the ship immediately...and his superiors did not come up with a place to house 5000 sailors in Guam fast enough to suit him.

He made his choice to go political to get what he wanted...and if he did not realize that he was choosing the hill for his military career to die on, he is too big a fool to be driving a dinghy, much less an aircraft carrier.

Apparently, everyone was not tested by March 30. As of yesterday, April 17, testing is still on-going, but "stalled at 94% " having been tested. Though, as of March 30, there were 7 known cases, there are now 660 positive test results with roughly 60% of them showing symptoms.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/military/story/2020-04-17/navy-cdc-to-launch-theodore-roosevelt-coronavirus-outbreak-study

[KFC911]

Hopefully the Capt recovers....I saw that the CPO of the TR died yesterday .

RIP Sir...

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

Apparently, everyone was not tested by March 30. As of yesterday, April 17, testing is still on-going, but "stalled at 94% " having been tested. Though, as of March 30, there were 7 known cases, there are now 660 positive test results with roughly 60% of them showing symptoms.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/military/story/2020-04-17/navy-cdc-to-launch-theodore-roosevelt-coronavirus-outbreak-study

Your article was pretty clear why some have not been tested (about 6%):
"The skeleton crew left behind on board won’t be tested until they rotate off to spend 14 days in quarantine,"

Actually there were quite a few more than 7 on March 30 (that were airlifted off the ship).

[fintstone]

While I am saddened that there was a death of a sailor...and recognize that any death is a tragedy, as a military member that served a long time and lost many friends, most of us realize that it is just a dangerous business (and swore our Oath with eye wide open to the fact).



May God bless he and others that gave their lives while serving, but many military members have caught this that are even not on a ship (more than 100 military members per day). Military, dependents, DoD civilians and contractors have all died. Even so, the military death rate is below that of the general population (most likely due to age and health). A 40 year old man...is ancient...and a greybeard in the military.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Your article was pretty clear why some have not been tested (about 6%):
"The skeleton crew left behind on board won’t be tested until they rotate off to spend 14 days in quarantine,"

Actually there were quite a few more than 7 on March 30 (that were airlifted off the ship).

No issues with the 94%. My point was only that the original statement that all the crew was tested by March 30 was incorrect, at least according to the article. The implication of that statement is that it was known, at that time, the degree of infection on board and it was not. It clarifies the context in which the Cpt. made his decision. I have no opinion as to what the Cpt. did and the eventual outcome.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

No issues with the 94%. My point was only that the original statement that all the crew was tested by March 30 was incorrect, at least according to the article. The implication of that statement is that it was known, at that time, the degree of infection on board and it was not. It clarifies the context in which the Cpt. made his decision. I have no opinion as to what the Cpt. did and the eventual outcome.

I will concede that point as almost every article I have read (now) sets the number tested by various dates differently. The first one I read indicated that all were tested by March 30...while others seem to indicate otherwise. Logically, it takes a lot of time to test 5000, so I suspect that they triaged and tested sick, then those most closely in contact with the sick, etc. It probably took several days. Even then to ensure the sick had not infected others after initial testing, they would have had to test again as they found new cases. That may be the confusion with the reporting as with the original test kits, they generally test twice anyways...because of so many false negatives. Most have probably been tested multiple times by now (including the skeleton crew).

[Ayles]

The real problem is all those tough non emo guys dying by self inflicted means. What does that say about the military or those that volunteer?

Seems like that is the real crisis here in regard to the military.

You say they go into it knowing the danger. Your stats do not bear this out as accidents and suicide make up more than 50%. Not sure that’s the kind of danger people think about.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Ayles

The real problem is all those tough non emo guys dying by self inflicted means. What does that say about the military or those that volunteer?

Seems like that is the real crisis here in regard to the military.

You say they go into it knowing the danger. Your stats do not bear this out as accidents and suicide make up more than 50%. Not sure that’s the kind of danger people think about.

As far as suicides, it says it is a hard, lonely life...that is comprised of many young people without family support systems. Even so, studies show there are "no statistically significant differences between the military suicide rate and the U.S. population suicide rate, after adjusting for differences in age and sex."

Accidents are danger.

[John Rogers]

Here is another thing to ponder, maybe those not tested are the nuclear operators and if they were tested and showed positive would have to be taken off. I served on 4 different nuclear powered ships (no subs) and 2 shore nuclear stations and depending on how much power has to be produced you need a certain number of QUALIFIED operators. If nuclear operators are moved from one ship to another they still have to go through a qualification period unless it is the same class of carrier and Naval Reactors would waive that requirement? That is something even the CNO can't override! If the shore station in Guam has sufficient power to allow both reactors to be shut down and have coolant pumps run at slow speed to get rid of the latent heat, monitor chemistry and maintain security then very few MMs, ETs, EMs, ELTs, ETC are needed. If part of one reactor has to be kept on line for ships loads and reactor loads then the personnel requirements are much higher.

The reactors are not like gas turbines or the old fashioned boilers when they can just be shut down and you all go home. I seriously doubt any safety analysis was even done to cover a situation such as this one?

I came back after reading the next post and unless things have changed a lot over the years the nuclear weapons on a carrier are guarded by U.S. Marines also called "Fleet Marines".

[fintstone]

Good info. I know nuclear weapons but not nuclear power. Thanks!

[RWebb]

The Flags are not stupid. This gives them maximum lebensraum to consider the situation until they get a read on what Commander in Chump is going to do.

[Hard-Deck]

Capt Crozier is a leader and an American Hero.