General Brown's POV - the voice of experience

[74-911]

General Brown has been nominated to be the next Chief of Staff of the USAF. His experiences with racism throughout his career are rather interesting.

Just perhaps this wont end up in PARF ?

[fintstone]

It is hard to believe he was treated poorly if he is wearing 4 stars. Just sayin'.

[KFC911]

Thank you for posting that. I worked at four corporations during my career, IBM, two mega-banks, and then one more. The first three were truly merit based...blacks and females could and did thrive imo. The last one was....shall I say.... a bit different .

I was born privledged...yet I have zero guilt for what happened before me....

Times change...and to quote Dylan....

"The times they are a changin'...."

Thanks again....

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by fintstone

It is hard to believe he was treated poorly if he is wearing 4 stars. Just sayin'.

....and some things never change.

[fintstone]

I served with him...you did not.

[madcorgi]

You claim.

[fintstone]

I certainly do.

Just look at the assignments in his official bio. He was his groomed every step of the way...in ways that few are. I have nothing bad to say about the man, but racism never held him back in the AF. Nothing held back anyone that made 4 stars (about a dozen total at any one time). Each was sponsored from early in their career...and mentored and developed every step of the way. Almost every one has nearly an identical career path to the point this man is today. I don't know another organization treats minorities better than the AF. They have always been way ahead of the rest of the nation in this regard IMHO. Anything above O-5 or O-6 is very political. He is an O-10. He obviously played the game very well and was blessed at each step of the way.

[KFC911]

So what's your POV fint.... that General Brown is FOS, not credible, and that his views should be dismissed as BS?

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by KC911

So what's your POV fint.... that General Brown is FOS, not credible, and that his views should be dismissed as BS?

No. That everyone thinks they had it harder than everyone else, had to work harder, smarter etc...because they cannot believe that others are doing the same. When you are a minority, a woman, even a hick from Appalachia...it is easy to attribute it to your status as such...and strongly believe that is the case (walked 5 miles uphill in the snow both ways). I can tell you as someone that came in before the General and served the entire same period as he did (except for the last year)...and was a minority officer recruiter for the Academy and ROTC...the AF treasured minority officers and did everything they could to recruit and advance them.

I can also tell you that his resume shows that he was given/earned the right opportunity at every step of his career from the day he entered active duty. Much like the kids of Generals and Colonels seem to. It is a very small minority of all members that receive this type of treatment...but was common for women and minorities in the period that met even minimum qualifications.

That doesn't mean he did not work hard, is not a fine officer, etc. I just don't buy it that it is any more difficult for one race than another in the AF as I have never seen it. In fact, there have always been programs to advance minorities (especially scholarship programs and entry into elite positions). They even track promotions to ensure they are at least equal (based on numbers).

I just feel his video besmirches the AF a bit...unnecessarily and a bit unfairly. I feel sorry for active duty folks now and all the machinations they are going through getting "woke" by leaders now to recognize just how racists the system must be...just as we had to when some decided the military was a "rape culture". The military is always the first group the politicians choose to indoctrinate/fix...whether needed or not.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by fintstone

That doesn't mean he did not work hard, is not a fine officer, etc. I just don't buy it that it is any more difficult for one race than another in the AF as I have never seen it. In fact, there have always been programs to advance minorities (especially scholarship programs and entry into elite positions). They even track promotions to ensure they are at least equal (based on numbers).

Navy is the same. I worked a tour as a detailer at BUPERS and sat in on a lot of promotion boards, astronaut boards, test pilot school boards, etc.

I have stories.

[fintstone]

You can tell the ones that they put on the fast track. Never a bad assignment. Never at one more than about a year (maybe two), get the stink on them but never time to fail. Get every school at exactly the right point, etc...while many with the same credentials live in a hole in Minot or BFE for 4 years and are "operationally deferred" from going to schools. I have nothing against them (maybe jealousy)...and know it is tough to keep moving, etc...and there is pressure/some burn out...but I sure don't think they are held back.

[KFC911]

So is he FOS, and his perspective to be dismissed? The same fast-track happens in corporate America too.... absolutely....from day one for some. The inverse also...jmho.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by KC911

So is he FOS, and his perspective to be dismissed? The same fast-track happens in corporate America too.... absolutely....from day one for some. The inverse also...jmho.

I guess everyone's perspective is of some value to someone. We all see things differently. I just hate anyone who plays a victim when that largely is not the case...and furthers the narrative. It is a lot like a pro athlete telling one how oppressed he is or a Trump child telling you how tough their life was. Although there will always be people that exhibit racism, it is just not systemic as some would indicate...especially in the Air Force.

The AF has never been able to recruit the minorities it desired (and invested greatly to do so). Here we have a black 4 star that will likely be the next AF Chief of Staff (top job in the entire service), and he is essentially telling blacks that it is difficult for blacks to serve. If that scares them off, many will pass up a golden opportunity for a great life. Might as well tell minorities that college is too hard for them because all professors will treat them poorly due to color...and be shocked that they do not choose that path.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by KC911

So is he FOS, and his perspective to be dismissed?

I never said he was FOS, nor was I dismissive. Color me skeptical. Full disclosure, I had to stop watching the video.

But, so, however, in your mind because he is black every utterance is without question? THAT is the definition of racism.

Thank god my parents would never allow me the pity party on that video...probably why, while I love the Air Force, I became a Navy pilot.

[KFC911]

Paul....that wasn't directed at you specifically . I am a skeptic and a cynic at my very core fwiw, and take everything with a big ol' grain of salt....both political parties, and the ends of the spectrum that use both for "whatever" their agenda is. That doesn't mean some of what they're peddling doesn't have merit either. I have little doubt that the military has been far more "color blind" than the rest of society for several decades now. I think we all should listen...and I'm not saying you don't either. I also know how a lot of folks I've been around are still living in the "dark ages" too....some wear badges.

I have no "white guilt" either... but having grown up in the south with black friends all my life....they are still treated differently by a lot of folks I've encountered along my journey.... that is all I'm saying.

And yes....some blacks play the "race card" better than the KKK does .

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by KC911

Paul....that wasn't directed at you specifically . I am a skeptic and a cynic at my very core fwiw, and take everything with a big ol'...

No worries.

When we moved from Cali to South Carolina in 1975 (I was a junior in HS) I found less racial “stress” than in Cali at the time.

Not better, not worse, just different.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

I never said he was FOS, nor was I dismissive. Color me skeptical. Full disclosure, I had to stop watching the video.

But, so, however, in your mind because he is black every utterance is without question? THAT is the definition of racism.

Thank god my parents would never allow me the pity party on that video...probably why, while I love the Air Force, I became a Navy pilot.

Same here. My feelings exactly...other than the NAVY/AF thing. The last 15 or so years, AF leadership has gone to crap. All PC/pity fest all the time. Maybe it was before and I was just too low on the food chain to understand how the sausage was made.

[rusnak]

Lewis Hamilton likes to talk about how he was too poor, too black, or too unknown to succeed.

One of our former U.S. Presidents liked to say that he doesn't look like the other Presidents on U.S. currency, or that he was discriminated against and held back by his race or religion. He suggested, perhaps by now it's out of habit, that the rest of the country has to change, but he's doing just fine.

In Lewis Hamilton, I find it to be odd that the most wealthy athlete in the world, with a global audience, can find the opportunity to scold the same sport that has given him his lucky break, then his fortune, and his fame.

In the case of our country's President, his poor upbringing, his education, political career, and eventual two-term presidency all serve to undermine his complaint that a poor black child born in this country is not allowed to succeed.

In both cases I see a hypocrite who is trying to use divisive language in order to give himself praise at the same time as criticizing the very system that created him.

Both men like to yammer on about the old saw of inequality in America. Never mind the fact that one of them is not American. There'll never be total equality. But there is still opportunity, and that is what counts. History will not be kind to these sorts of figures who are petty race-peddling shamans. History has called their bluff already. That is an empirical fact.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Same here. My feelings exactly...other than the NAVY/AF thing. The last 15 or so years, AF leadership has gone to crap. All PC/pity fest all the time. Maybe it was before and I was just too low on the food chain to understand how the sausage was made.

The Navy, as I knew it, has been gone for at least 15 years. And I do love the AF, Flint, the Navy was just a better fit for my particular personality.

So, quick Sea Story, one I have written about before.

My second time through the RAG training cycle, the first two female SH-60B pilots were in my class. I was a LCDR and the senior person in the class.

They were 10 CAT 1 (beginning) students and I and another guy were Cat 4 (lots of flight time in the aircraft). The CAT 1 syllabus was 6 months, the CAT 4 syllabus 8 weeks or less depending on weather. I had over 2000 hours in the 60 at that time.

This was at NAS Mayport, Florida in the 90's so I was geobatching while my family stayed in Maryland.

The two young women in the class were and remain two of he best young aviators I have met.

They had no mentors, no one that "looked" like them, no predictive path and faced a ton of hostility. Just like the 4 Star claims.

I flew a lot of simulator time with both of them because I was bored to tears and, frankly, they really knew their stuff. It was fun to try and fool them.

On one simulator hop, for score, we had an instructor, an LT, who tried to browbeat one of young ladies I was flying the sim with...it wasn't pretty.

I stopped the hop, told the Ensign to get out of the sim and then instructed the LT that I would pillage his f'ing village if I even think he treats another student like he treated the student I was flying with.

After the hop, the young Ensign thanked me and I told her the absolute truth: "You are the first, be the best...after that it has nothing to do with you being a female, it has everything to do with the fact that you are really talented and driven. I would have done that for any Ensign as good as you..."

So, the 4 Star had it hard. Get the f over it.

[island911]

Originally Posted by 74-911

...

Just perhaps this wont end up in PARF ?
...

Funny how that works.

To Seahawks point... seal training lessons (10) from an Admiral about advancement.