Absolutely relevant to shooting nuisance crows. You should know that.

That must have been hilarious. I hate starlings.

crows fall under the MBTA - mammals don't

the OP will not be able to use hunting or depredation exceptions to protect his sailboat

and... thx to this thread some folks are going to slam US FWS for not following NEPA in in granting those exception orders left & right

should be fun

If I was the inscrutable acronym police I would bust your ass so fast....

Now you are just going around in circles, Randy, repeating the same ignorant, already disproven tripe. Several of us have cleared this up for you already, providing examples of our respective states' laws. MBTA allows for both sport hunting and "nuisance wildlife" control when administered by the states. That is not difficult to understand. For most of us, anyway.

We have a family of crows who nest in a pine tree in our yard. Our dog will bark at ducks and geese which may be on the river or flying by. She is used to the crows and pays no attention to them, as a rule. The other day I had mowed hay in a field in front of the house and two of the crows flew in to hunt for mice. The dog noticed the birds and started barking and running to chase them away. The crows took flight but turned to pass a few feet over the dog. They didn't swoop down or attack, they just let the dog know who they were. The dog returned to the patio. The crows returned to their hunt.

Best
Les

... under certain conditions and by following certain procedures

and it now appears that US FWS is not following them

I know you'd rather argue than believe an attorney who specializes in exactly this type of situation, so why not ask Justice Gorsuch?

He just wrote extensively on this topic.

The OP has no way to legally shoot crows near his sail boat. You can go around in circles with that if you want.

Sorry Randy, but you have demonstrated a marked inability to understand very simple state game regulations as presented by several of us. And don't puff your chest out and give me this "I'm a lawyer" nonsense - it is clear you do not understand some aspects of the very law in which you claim to "specialize". I suggest you educate yourself before you make a fool of yourself somewhere other than on a car forum.

Georgia regs.

Migratory Birds Seasons | Georgia Hunting Seasons & Regulations – 2019 | eRegulations

I bet Randy thinks you can't hunt ducks or geese from a boat (or at all since they are regulated by the migratory bird treaty act).

Washington State small game seasons, including crows:

https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/summary-of-seasons/small-game

Crow: Daily bag limit: none
Season dates: Statewide: Sept. 1 - Dec. 31
Crows in the act of depredation may be taken at any time.

I guess it takes an "attorney" who "specializes" in this area of law to not understand such simple rules.

I think Mike (OP) is in GA.

Jeff - I am surprised that you think something is legal just because a govt. agency does it.

Also suggest you reread the OP.

Here is what I think, based on years of research and having trained every anti-crow sleuth in this country and most of Mexico:

Nothing works.

https://www.growgardener.com/how-to-keep-crows-away/

https://www.stoppestinfo.com/402-how-to-get-rid-of-crows.html

The growers in Eastern Washington have tried everything.

For your conundrum, try the motion activated sprinkler.

What I wouldn't do is shoot them. If you are on a lake in Georgia, there will be crow lovers three docks over who will be all RWebb up in your business. Trust me.

Who knew Charlie Kelly was on Pelican?




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And I'm surprised you are so completely ignorant regarding what you claim to be your specialty. Maybe this will help. From California, one of the better, more concise explanations of the relationship between state game law and federal law. Note that they list, specifically, the federal law that allows the taking of crows under both hunting and depredation rules:

https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.ashx?DocumentID=165441&inline

American Crow Regulations; a synopsis:

Under federal laws and regulations, crows are a migratory bird but not a migratory game bird. Existing federal regulations allow the take of crows (consistent with State regulations) under both hunting and depredation order regulations.

Under state laws and regulations, crows are not defined as migratory game birds, but as nongame birds. Take under state regulations is allowed under both hunting and depredation and nuisance provisions.

Under the State hunting regulations, a license is required, a season is established, methods of take are stipulated. Shooting hours are 1/2 hour before sunrise to 1/2 hour after sunset. Only shotguns, falconry and archery equipment may be used; electronic calls may be used.

(Although the crow regulations are published with the upland bird regulations, since they are not upland game birds, but nongame birds, you cannot use the upland game bird shooting hours regulations, but must go back to the Fish and Game Code, Section 3000, for general shooting hours for birds and mammals.)

Under State depredation regulations, only the landowner or tenants or an others authorized in writing may take crows at any time and in any number to eliminate depredation, health hazard or nuisance. Shotguns, archery and falconry, and toxicants under additional regulations, may be used.

Selected laws and regulations related to American Crows
Migratory Bird Treaty Act
Migratory bird defined in § 50CFR10.13 Includes American Crow
Migratory game bird defined in § 50CFR20.11 does not include Corvidae (crows)

Federal hunting regulations for crows are defined in § 50CFR20.133:

§ 20.133 Hunting regulations for crows.
(a) Crows may be taken, possessed, transported, exported, or imported, only in accordance with such laws or regulations as may be prescribed by a State pursuant to this section.
(b) Except in the State of Hawaii, where no crows shall be taken, States may by statute or regulation prescribe a hunting season for crows. Such State statutes or regulations may set forth the method of taking, the bag and possession limits, the dates and duration of the hunting season, and such other regulations as may be deemed appropriate, subject to the following limitations for each State:
(1) Crows shall not be hunted from aircraft;
(2) The hunting season or seasons on crows shall not exceed a total of 124 days during a calendar year; (3) Hunting shall not be permitted during the peak crow nesting period within a State; and
(4) Crows may only be taken by firearms, bow and arrow, and falconry.

Federal depredation order for crows as defined in § 50CFR21.43:

§ 21.43 Depredation order for blackbirds, cowbirds, grackles, crows and magpies.
A Federal permit shall not be required to control yellow-headed redwinged, rusty, and Brewer’s blackbirds, cowbirds, all grackles, crows, and magpies, when found committing or about to commit depredations upon ornamental or shade trees, agricultural crops, livestock, or wildlife, or when concentrated in such numbers and manner as to constitute a health hazard or other nuisance: Provided:
(a) That none of the birds killed pursuant to this section, nor their plumage, shall be sold or offered for sale, but may be possessed, transported, and otherwise disposed of or utilized.
(b) That any person exercising any of the privileges granted by this section shall permit at all reasonable times including during actual operations, any Federal or State game or deputy game agent, warden, protector, or other game law enforcement officer free and unrestricted access over the premises on which such operations have been or are being conducted; and shall furnish promptly to such officer whatever information he may require, concerning said operations.
(c) That nothing in this section shall be construed to authorize the killing of such birds contrary to any State laws or regulations; and that none of the privileges granted under this section shall be exercised unless the person possesses whatever permit as may be required for such activities by the State concerned.
[39 FR 1178, Jan. 4, 1974, as amended at 54 FR 47525, Nov. 15, 1989]

This is child's play Randy, it really is. You know, ignorance is forgivable if one is willing to learn. The brand of stubborn, intractable ignorance that you are displaying here is almost painful to watch. Put the shovel down, Randy - you are well past making a fool of yourself.

How the hell can ya eat crow if you're not allowed to kill them first :D

Jeff, I don't think you understand what I have said. I'll number these:

1. The OP is worried about crow crap on his docked sail boat.

2. Exceptions allowed (if properly promulgated) under the MBTA are indeed "hunting and depredation order regulations" as you posted and as I cited some time ago.

2a. I see no way that hunting will apply as it is unlikely to be allowed anywhere near a public boat dock.

2b. He would have a very hard time fitting into a depredation exception. I posted the CFRs for this earlier - they are quite limited.

Now, what exactly do you disagree with? And, how do you propose that the OP legally shoot the crows?


Your personal attacks are not appreciated. I thought you had gone past that.

In GA there are three lakes with dock restrictions. If he is not on one of those lakes he can take as many crow during the season as he wishes. One aside, he probably cannot discharge any lead based projectiles in or near the water, but he can certainly use a high powered pellet rifle with alloy (non-lead) pellets.

Unpossible!
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