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Very Cool!! Hope you have much fun!

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Old 08-27-2020, 06:43 PM
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304065,

I bought my first street bike in 1989 from a guy on my ship. It was a R90S and I still have it in my garage waiting for me to restore it back to its original daytona orange/silver.

I now have 2 airheads, the other being a 1970 R50/5. I prefer the /6 bikes with the twin shocks and oil bath drive shaft.

I'm not a fan of the R65 mostly for their looks. I'm 6'-4" and I don't fit on them as well as the other airheads. If your on the shorter side, a r65 may be ideal for you.

The /6 have iron cylinders and the laters are aluminum with some kind of nikasil plating. There are a lot of small differences between the years. All of these bikes are old so you need to judge the bike and the owner equally when buying if you want to avoid some expensive problems.

I've rebuilt both of my bikes engines. I had a dealer do the main bearings and install the crank and I did the rest. I've welded cracked frames and cracked tanks and synched carbs... they're fun bikes to wrench on if you like that.

If you find a bike you really want, I'd reccomend doing a leak down before buying.
Old 08-27-2020, 07:16 PM
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do this (this is a good reading)

Old 08-27-2020, 07:27 PM
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Thanks guys! I'm still making a list of everything that will need to be done, like any new vehicle. Trying to take it slow until I'm up the learning curve a bit.

The paint is not original, but it is a BMW Color, I think Iceland Green, an early '90s color. Original color of the bike we think was Schwartz but the paint code sticker on the rear fender is long gone.

Must resist. . . temptation to. . . CONCOURS the bike! It's going to be parked on the street in NYC, it WILL get damaged. My priorities are safety, security then appearance and if I never get to the last one it won't be the end of the world.

@Otto-- the 90S sounds like a sweet bike, did you see the video where Max BMW rebuilt a complete new one from parts? Everything but the swingarm and four other tiny parts . . . cost them $46k!

Thanks for the leakdown photo, is that a roll-your-own tester? Looks like the inlet pressure is 85 and the cylinder pressure is 82, for 3.5% leakdown, very nice. Mine has an orifice and the right gauge shows you the percentage leakdown so no math to do. Very cool.

Yep this bike has Nikasil cylinders, the Factory went to that in 1981. As Denis says above there were dozens of improvements to the R65 from 9/80 onward (start of 81 model year after the August break). These include:

Brembo caliper instead of Ate (mine has dual Ate, which was stock)
Nikasil Cylinders instead of "Alloy with Cast Iron Liner" what we would call "Biral" in Porsche-land
Dome Top Bings with slide return spring for snappier throttle response
Flat air filter with tuned induction horns instead of round filter
Choke lever on the handlebars instead of on the filter housing (engine left side)
Different seat
Final Drive with 350cc oil capacity instead of 250cc
Greater oil capacity- 2.5l up from 2.25l
Larger valves-- 40mm Intake, 36mm Exhaust, hard valve seats for Unleaded fuel
Hall-Effect Transistorized ignition with single, dual output 1.5 ohm coil (charges faster)
Lighter flywheel (really a "clutch carrier"
Electronic voltage regulator

And a few other minor differences. Nothing huge, and a '79 would have been fine, it's more about condition than specification for what I'm using it for.

To your point about having the bottom end professionally built. . . I have been reading everywhere that installing the crank bearing in the bearing carrier is a difficult job that should only be attempted by experts. Which I don't really understand, I've read the procedure in the Factory manual and looked at a few bearing carriers-- seems like you just heat the carrier, push out the old bearing with a press, press in the new one then drill and deburr radial holes of a certain size through it, guided by the existing oil passages in the carrier, then drill a hole for the pin and ream that hole to a taper, insert the pin and stake the edges over and you're good. Compared to building a 911 engine that's pretty easy. What am I missing?

Will keep the group posted as new parts roll in.
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'66 911 #304065 Irischgruen
'81 R65
Ex-'71 911 PCA C-Stock Club Racer #806 (Sold 5/15/13)
Ex-'88 Carrera (Sold 3/29/02)
Ex-'91 Carrera 2 Cabriolet (Sold 8/20/04)
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Old 08-28-2020, 04:47 AM
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Awesome! Nice bike. Enjoy.
Old 08-28-2020, 05:14 AM
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304065

Thats my home made leak down tester. It works as good as anything you can buy.

I cringe at the thought of keeping a bike outside on the street but its new york so unless your Jerry Seinfeld, you're pretty much stuck with what you can afford to live in.

I did watch the Max R90S replica build. You shouldn't have any problem getting parts for a R65. If you ever need really specialized work like valve seats to be replaced I would use Ted Porter in San Jose.

Most shops can do the bottom end bearings but many new shops don't have a old tech who got into the business when airheads were being sold new. Max bmw isn't that far from you so you could use them.

I REALLY doubt you will ever need a bottom end done anyway. You can do your own clutch work, even outside if you have to.

Just do the normal maintenance. Change the fluids, check how old the tires are. Synch the carbs, check the timing.

to do the bottom end, you need to heat the block in an oven to install and remove the bearings.

Last edited by otto_kretschmer; 08-28-2020 at 08:09 AM..
Old 08-28-2020, 08:04 AM
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My old one.
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Old 08-28-2020, 04:45 PM
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Old 08-28-2020, 09:10 PM
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The "Show your Bike" aspect of this thread is not only fun but helpful in a way you might think.

If you look at 911_Dude's photo of his restored R65 above, you can see that the intake tubes have two clamps at the medial (airbox) end and one clamp at the distal (carb) end. The plastic intake tube has a flare molded into it, the distal end fits over the carb and is secured with one clamp. At the medial end, the tube mates up to an aluminum sleeve that fits in the rubber snorkel inside the airbox, using a 60mm rubber grommet. The way this is installed is, you slide the grommet down till its flush with the end of the medial end of the tube, turn it so it fits against the aluminum sleeve, then slide the grommet up and secure with two clamps.

This "single clamp at the carb" is shown on 911_Dude's bike, and also Byron's. That is the way it is illustrated on page 58 of the owners manual, and in the 1981 brochure (pic with the blue and green bikes, look closely).

And yet the parts fiche at realoem.com shows the gasket at the distal (carb) end with two clamps there. And I tried to reverse the tubes, thinking they were incorrectly installed, but I can only make them fit with the one clamp at the airbox and two clamps at the carb. . .



I thought this was a function of the tube length, but for the square airbox R65 (1981-) both left and right tubes are the same part number, identical. the difference in cylinder position was accounted for in the airbox itself, one snorkel is further forward than the other.

Scratching my head. . . would ask the folks on the R65 forum but can't seem to get them to let me in. . .
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'66 911 #304065 Irischgruen
'81 R65
Ex-'71 911 PCA C-Stock Club Racer #806 (Sold 5/15/13)
Ex-'88 Carrera (Sold 3/29/02)
Ex-'91 Carrera 2 Cabriolet (Sold 8/20/04)
Ex-'89 944 Turbo S (Sold 8/21/20)
Old 09-03-2020, 11:00 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #49 (permalink)
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304065,

I lived all over Europe a long time ago and the R65's were very popular there. Turns out that it was done there for tax reasons and if you are not riding long distances the smaller motor worked just fine. They would do ok on the autobahn but not for days at a time.

They do not have the torque or staying power but as long as you do not mind revving them pretty tight they run fine. I have a 1970 R75 and its got more than enough power.
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Old 09-05-2020, 12:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #50 (permalink)
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  • Acquisition Costs
  • 1981 R65 2950 Bill L.
  • Shipping 390 Get it Done Transportation
  • Sales Tax 261.81 NY State
  • Registration 100 NY State

    Acquisition costs: $3,701.81

    Restoration Costs To Date
  • Bag Mount Hardware 21.18 Various Bel-Metric
  • Fuel Hose 17.81 Various Bel-Metric
  • Battery Cables 16.78 30in/9in Battery Cables USA
  • Battery Straps/Grommets 90.32 Various Max BMW
  • Carb Manifolds, Clamps 130.56 Various BMW Manhattan
  • Brake Light Switch/Sleeves 49.61 Various BMW Manhattan
  • Front Brake Hose 59.62 Various BMW Manhattan
  • Speedo Grommet/Boots 72.94 Various Euro Motor Electric
  • Reflectors/Hex Bolt 18.01 Various BMW Manhattan
  • Copper Crush Seals 48.71 Various Boxer2Valve
  • Brake Pads/Springs 157.41 Various BMW Manhattan
  • Left Rear Peg 20.68 Ebay
  • Pair Spark Plugs 11.08 W6D Ebay
  • Air Box 43.55 Ebay
  • Lock Set 43.55 Ebay
  • Vintage Plate 38.08 Ebay
  • TwinMax 59.88 Ebay
  • Tool Tray 27.76 Ebay
  • Tachometer 52.1 Ebay
  • Luggage Rack Set 162.66 Ebay
  • Voltmeter 12.87 Ebay
  • Tom Pfeiffer 808 Fork Seals/Tuning
  • Voltage Regulator 17.41 Amazon
  • Resistor 5.74 Amazon
  • Pressure Gauge/Brake Lube 34.34 Amazon
  • LED Bulbs 11.96 Amazon
  • LED Bulbs 26.1 Amazon
  • Liqui Moly Gear Lube 9.8 Amazon
  • Oil Filter and Recycle Jugs 38.92 Amazon
  • Battery 44.63 Amazon
  • Syringe for Oil Change 14.99 Amazon
  • Oil Beaker/ Fuel Filter 15.36 Amazon
  • Air Filter/Degreaser 41.88 Amazon
  • License Plate Screws/Phone Clamp 56.6 Amazon
  • Punch for Brakes 4.85 Amazon
  • Thread Pitch Gauge 9.79 Amazon
  • Bike Lock 35.99 Amazon
  • Brake Bolts/Tap 52.35 McMaster
  • Brake Squeal Pads/Ball Head Hex 17.79 McMaster
  • Rotor, Diode Board, Rotor Removal Tool, Ignition Module, Coil $500 Euro Motor Electric

    Total to date $6,603.47

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'66 911 #304065 Irischgruen
'81 R65
Ex-'71 911 PCA C-Stock Club Racer #806 (Sold 5/15/13)
Ex-'88 Carrera (Sold 3/29/02)
Ex-'91 Carrera 2 Cabriolet (Sold 8/20/04)
Ex-'89 944 Turbo S (Sold 8/21/20)

Last edited by 304065; 12-22-2020 at 06:23 PM..
Old 12-22-2020, 06:19 PM
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I suppose a narrative update rather than just an itemized list of receipts would be fun.

I had a great time riding the bike to work in the summer and fall. The run from home to office is all of 12 minutes and parking not an issue on either end. Traffic was not bad although rush hour still rush hour.

The bike handles great and it's easy to negotiate the City. Even ran into some other airhead/oilhead owners on the street! The bike is a conversation piece which generates compliments even from random drivers at stop lights.

I took it out to Motorcycle Works in Brooklyn, to the owner Tom Pfeiffer, who has been in the business for 46 years. To say he has seen it all would be an understatement. After getting to know him a bit I found him to be an invaluable resource for all things airhead.

Turns out the fork seals were leaking oil onto the front brakes so the bike would not pass inspection. I scheduled a service appointment for those-- while not particularly complicated, the thought of pulling off the front wheel in the street in late fall just did not appeal to me. So it was out to Tom's shop in Brooklyn for the work.

Tom also went through the bike and came up with a list of other items to do, the inevitable issues that present when a bike sits for a long time. The clutch cable was from another bike entirely, and wasn't adjusted right. Turns out that airheads have an easy clutch, I thought it took an Iron Hand to operate these bikes, wrong! Once he put the new cable on and adjusted it right the clutch was smooth and easy to operate.

He also synchronized the carbs and adjusted the idle to perfection. It now idles at 900 rpm like the Factory says it should.

There are a few other things to fix- the swing arm boot is cracked and needs to be replaced at the time of the next spline lube.

The biggest thing Tom found was wear to the timing chain. About five minutes after startup once the oil warms, you can hear a very distinctive metallic tapping that is the timing chain flopping around.

The '81 has a simplex, single-row chain and hydraulic tensioner which is not that complicated compared to the chain tensioning system on a later 911. Actually there is an oil feed to the piston that pushes on the tensioner rail, and that oil spills out of the tensioner to lubricate the chain.

I decided to pull it apart to take a look. The first thing I realized is that after you get the front engine cover off, you're looking at the alternator rotor and stator and the ITU ("Bean Can") below. You remove the stator then pull the rotor with the special hardened rotor-pulling bolt, it fits on the nose of the camshaft with a tapered fit, then the intermediate housing will come off.

Except in my case the front exhaust crossover pipe was in the way. Went to take it off and it was rusted in place, the clamp on one end was missing entirely and the other one encrusted in rust. I wasn't about to remove the exhaust nuts to remove the crossover pipe, as these are likely frozen in place and will need to be carefully cut off with a grinder to avoid damaging the threads in the heads. So I just cut the crossover tube with a grinding wheel and was free. It had to be replaced anyway.

Once that was clear I could get the intermediate housing off to expose the timing chain. I disassembled the tensioner by removing the e-clip at the top, there was a LOT of slop in the chain.



So I'm going to order the parts this winter and fix this up right. I will change the crank sprocket at the same time. Probably going to leave the cam sprocket alone and resist the temptation to install a Siebenrock cam and lighter cam sprocket, if only because the R65's lifters are a hollow type, the pushrod actually goes INTO the lifter and touches on the inboard end to accomodate the narrower motor- and the lifters are NLA as far as I can see. So will leave that for a later project.

When Tom was tuning the carbs, he noticed that the idle jets did not have any O-Rings! The carbs are due for an overhaul, when I drained the float bowls for winter storage there was accumulated crud, not loose, but these will be vapor blasted.

Will post an update when that work begins.



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Ex-'71 911 PCA C-Stock Club Racer #806 (Sold 5/15/13)
Ex-'88 Carrera (Sold 3/29/02)
Ex-'91 Carrera 2 Cabriolet (Sold 8/20/04)
Ex-'89 944 Turbo S (Sold 8/21/20)

Last edited by 304065; 12-23-2020 at 05:59 AM..
Old 12-23-2020, 05:42 AM
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Did you ever get the air intake tubes figured out?
Old 12-23-2020, 05:58 AM
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Yes. The tubes in the airbox were misaligned, once the rubber nubs on those were properly aligned, the intake tubes fit right in the correct orientation.

When I put the bike up for storage I removed the airbox, timing cover and front cover. These will be sent off to be vapor blasted then powder coated. The original paint was flaking off pretty bad.

I forgot to mention another one of Tom's finds, which is that the left jug was showing a 5% leakdown (acceptable) and the right was showing 19% through the intake, exhaust and rings.

This is my fault for buying the bike sight unseen, of course a leakdown is the FIRST element of a PPI.

When he went to adjust the valves, a necessary first step before carb tuning, he found that there was ZERO clearance. So it would not be a surprise to me to find that the valves on the right jug are burned. I decided to drive it until the winter layup then figure it out in spring.

It's a simple matter, since I am pulling off the exhaust for replacement anyway, to pull the head on that side and take a look. Once the head is off, the jug can come off to check the piston for wear. And once the piston is off I might as well change the rod bearings. . . WHILE I AM IN THERE. . . LOL

This is the slippery slope that we are all familiar with. After the restoration of my '66 911 I am so familiar with it that I now ski it to the bottom. . .
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'66 911 #304065 Irischgruen
'81 R65
Ex-'71 911 PCA C-Stock Club Racer #806 (Sold 5/15/13)
Ex-'88 Carrera (Sold 3/29/02)
Ex-'91 Carrera 2 Cabriolet (Sold 8/20/04)
Ex-'89 944 Turbo S (Sold 8/21/20)
Old 12-23-2020, 06:08 AM
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That will be a great running bike when you have it all sorted out. I’m sure you realize that you’ll have more into this bike than you’ll ever get out of it. I hope you plan on keeping it!
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Old 12-23-2020, 07:20 AM
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LOL Kurt yep I didn't buy it as an investment! Between the timing chain, new tires, new seat, powder coating of the engine bits and a complete new exhaust I could have just about had a used R9T! But learning about this has been fun. . . I keep waiting for it to get really complicated, but it's actually pretty simple compared to modern... anything.

Enjoy the holidays!
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'81 R65
Ex-'71 911 PCA C-Stock Club Racer #806 (Sold 5/15/13)
Ex-'88 Carrera (Sold 3/29/02)
Ex-'91 Carrera 2 Cabriolet (Sold 8/20/04)
Ex-'89 944 Turbo S (Sold 8/21/20)
Old 12-23-2020, 07:24 AM
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Cool. Yeah they are super simple bikes. The valve adjustment is a frequent requirement. If you ever have trouble tuning the carbs, check the valve gap.
Old 12-23-2020, 10:18 AM
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I picked up a '78 R80/7 a few months ago about 2.5 hours North in Pomona. Purchased the bike and rode it home. Spent the last couple of months turning it into a cafe' scrambler themed R bike and got to ride it the first time after getting it rewired last week. Can't wait learn more about this thing as I gain more experience with it as I picked it up like you - To be a commuter. Mine is a bit longer, about 13 miles or 20 minutes, but in San Diego it's not so bad.

I do find myself jealous of the time I see people who are on YouTube have to become fully engaged in these endeavors. Two jobs, two homes, a wife, and two year old daughter make it difficult for me to find more than 60 minutes here or there when I feel like you need entire weekends to really get involved.

Oh well, I'll continue to age and things will slow down so I probably shouldn't hope for that to arrive any sooner than it has to!
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Old 12-23-2020, 10:59 AM
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Ryan LOL I find myself watching ALL YouTube videos on 2x speed for the same reason, lack of time! Then again I think about all the time it took me to compile 9,541 posts on Pelican in the last 19 years. . .

Let's see some before and afters of the R80 that would be interesting to see.

Man you can ride that thing to THE SPOT in La Jolla, is that place still there? Used to have a tail hook on the wall inside, off an A-4 or something. Good times long ago.
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'81 R65
Ex-'71 911 PCA C-Stock Club Racer #806 (Sold 5/15/13)
Ex-'88 Carrera (Sold 3/29/02)
Ex-'91 Carrera 2 Cabriolet (Sold 8/20/04)
Ex-'89 944 Turbo S (Sold 8/21/20)
Old 12-23-2020, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 304065 View Post
Ryan LOL I find myself watching ALL YouTube videos on 2x speed for the same reason, lack of time! Then again I think about all the time it took me to compile 9,541 posts on Pelican in the last 19 years. . .

Let's see some before and afters of the R80 that would be interesting to see.

Man you can ride that thing to THE SPOT in La Jolla, is that place still there? Used to have a tail hook on the wall inside, off an A-4 or something. Good times long ago.
Before.





Pretty much current.



Took it out to pick up a few small things for the 911 today and had an older gentleman stop me and talk for a few minutes about his R-69 that he missed. Great conversation.

The Spot? I'm going to have to do a bit of research but that sounds like my kind of spot. Hope they wouldn't mind a Hornet dude hanging out!

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Old 12-23-2020, 06:42 PM
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