I'm thinking I shouldn't even comment in this thread based on that comment.

But Sammy says the big money rolls in at 60k posts. :D

It is normal, and expected, for an airplane to come with complete maintenance logs.
First page in my airplane's logs has the factory test pilot's signature, and everything from tire changes to every year's annual inspection is listed and signed.

Sure, it is legal to sell/buy an airplane with incomplete logs, but the value is greatly diminished.
One of the first steps in buying an airplane is to request scanned copies of the logbooks.
If sections are missing, the value of the airplane drops by 25% or so.
No maintenance logs at all? Plan on losing 40% of the price vs. the same plane with complete logs.
With no logs, the airplane is not legally airworthy, as there is no record that it has had it's annual inspection within the previous 12 months.
Before the airplane can fly, a licensed A&P with IA (Inspection authorization) must verify all ADs have been complied (a daunting task to research without logs) and the aircraft is in the exact condition of it's Airworthiness Certificate. Any modifications require the proper FAA paperwork, or the airplane is not legal.

It is normal when buying an experimental that is comes with the original construction drawings, builder's log/notes along with complete maintenance records.
Another advantage of Experimentals- The owner can modify at will, with no more than an entry in the maintenance logs. No need to research what is allowed, buying permission from the STC (supplemental Type Certificate) holder, and sending the Form 337 off to the FAA.
If a major change is made to an experimental, like an engine/prop swap, or anything that may change its flight characteristics, it will require going back to "Phase 1" testing before carrying passengers.

This may be my favorite quote

If I'm going to to do an RV it would be an RV 10.. Way more useful than the smaller RVs, but I would look at older Bonanzas first..

Which Vans did you go for? Are you filming the build at all? Would love to watch your progress.

Re: going experimental. I have read a lot about what you are saying and honestly, the cost is a very attractive part of it. The other BIGGER reason is I have learned to trust my work much more than professionals. I have done most of the work on my houses myself. When I look at my work I am significantly more satisfied with my work quality than any contractor (Plus I know it was done right with no short cuts). I have worked on many cars and pretty much built my porsche (see my link below). I like knowing my cars completed, it brings me great confidence on the road. In terms of planes, I know they are quite different but it isnt anything I cannot learn and like I said I trust myself more than anyone I've ever hired. I only wish I was my own physician, there are a lot of ding bats in that rhelm as well.

BTW, this isnt to say there isn't good contractors, good mechanics and good physicians, I have just seen a lot of very bad ones.

Ideally, I get more acquainted with mechanics at a particular airfield. Maybe volunteer my time helping to restore an old plane. And hopefully those relationships grow and bestow some knowledge too me.

Im excited for your project, good luck

THanks all for the recommendations. I think the flying club is the best idea. I have found one that I have know of for a number of years and have heard good things about it. I agree with what many are saying, it isn't just the cost but I need to be more of the community and this seems like a nice transition, and doing this with my boy would be so great for us to do together. And given that it is just the 2 of us, there isn't a wife to disagee with spending out time this way. ;)

I'll still keep my dream of the vans and longingly look through controller.com at them. However, this appears the best next step (along with more hours and some aerobatic training).

Perfect! When you’re ready to own a plane, the right one will find you. In the meantime enjoy the club and soak up as much time on as many planes as you can.

Some gotchas with flying clubs are the availability and daily min hour costs, etc.. Want to use the plane for a three day weekend? Better book it 6 months ahead of time and you'll be paying a min daily rate on the days you aren't using it, etc.. Each club is different so be sure to check out the fine print.

I grew up around civil aviation and loved it. We spent 5000 hours in my dads hanger working on his latest restoration project. When I acquired a nice 172 in a business deal I started working towards my license and Mrs Cajun got freaked out. We had 3 small kids and both my dad and grandfather had died in a plane crash so she was determined to end that legacy with me.

+500 on joining a local flying club 1st because it will come with a great local support group. Spend 2 years flying Yourself and with others regularly and then decide if owning your own makes sense. If yes, the RV series would be on my short list. Good luck!

He also say that if it flies, floats, or ****s, you're better off renting.
But he's never owned a plane so what the heck does he know? :cool:

It seems like a pretty time/money intense hobby, but if you have plenty of both, go for it !

I liked owning my own. I new how it was cared for and made my own choice on upgrades. It was always available and mine was a cross country machine. We would use it on vacations. May be gone for two weeks at a time.

If you do buy your own, make sure you can get a hangar. I was paying $250 6 years ago, then $300 last year when they upgraded my door. Now if I wanted to go back there is a two year waiting list and it’s $400 a month.

Grew up flying in the back seat of Cessna 205 which can be rough in anything but smooth air. As a 6 year old I helped him repaint it- which meant fetching buckets of water and returning them to the hangar while he sanded the crap out of it. Watched him paint in the hangar too. Had a couple "oh *****" moments with the family onboard. (Looking at you Festus, MO.)

Actually soloed in a 172 in college, but I never truly got bit by the flying bug. Dad continued to fly all the time until he couldn't pass his annual physical due to an eye injury. I actually run a twin Beech fuel gauge in the clock slot of my '73 hotrod 911 as a tribute to him.

Neat thread and lots of great insight.

I have helped friends build two Vans, an RV-4 and a 7. It is actually very satisfying work.

I looked very hard at building an RV 4 for myself, flew one at the factory, etc. I like tandem seating and the ability to do aero. I even got a runway permit for my farm.

In the end, I decided to just fly with my neighbor, who keeps a J-3 Cub on his farm. We fly gentleman's aero once a month or so except in the winter. I have over 4000 hours in various aircraft so the love of straight and level is long gone:)

Best of luck.

When we went to look at the 182 we ended up buying we landed and tied down a few dozen feet from it. Certainly we took the cursory look at the paint and interior, but it was HOT on the ramp. We went inside and their line boy moved it into the hangar for us.

The first point of negotiations was the logs. It is not just one binder, it is a huge encyclopedia size set of books. Our mechanic went with us, and he is meticulous. He looked for gaps or anything out of the ordinary. We then took it for a test flight over to Lloyd Steerman Filed for a great hamburger.

We fly back the few miles to the James Jabara field and gave them a verbal commitment to buy. We already had the escrow account set up, and with that info they let us have the log books to take with us. They were all in order and we found very little that needed attention.

I can't imagine buying a airplane without good logs.

At the business I last worked at the business was started in 1947. The owner went through many different aircraft until 1969. He bought a 1965 206 with a hole on the floor put in at the factory. The airplane was bought new by the State of Oklahoma DOT, and the pilot that flew it away from the factory worked at the same business that I did. The factory hole was to mount a Leica Wild RC10 for many years and later a RC-30 aerial camera. The RC-30 cost $490,000 grand by itself.

It was used like a fleet work truck. The maintenance was done to meticulous standards. The airframe had over 14,000 hours on it. There were many stretches that it would get 40 hours of time in a week. The same mechanic worked on it for over 40 years and had a real love for that airplane.

It was not pretty, but we knew any mechanical issue it needed or upgrade available was done promptly.

There's an old saying when you're shopping for a plane: You're not buying the plane, you're buying the logbooks.

Planes are like motorcycles. Nothing wrong with just hanging out in the hanger working on your machine if that's what you like and you have the money. My brother was an A&P mechanic for years up in Loveland CO, and I'd just visit to see all the different aircraft.

If you lived out west you could have one of these... Just like a Jeep... A lot of old abandoned airstrips in the back country..

https://photos.smugmug.com/Cars/n-sz...DSC9244-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Cars/n-sz...DSC9248-X2.jpg

We had to lease two 172s for 12 months to finish some projects that required a lot of flying. Each 172 came with a huge suitcase size set of logbooks, and they said right in the lease that we were 100% responsible for the return of the log book, and all entries for the year. They put a 20K price on the log books if we lost them as motivation to keep them safe.

We were responsible for 100% of any maintenance of routine issues, and only an major engine issue was not our responsibility as long as the oil levels were normal. We had to do the annual before we returned it and have all the logs signed off and up to date.

That's a great story. Shame you didn't get bit by the bug (or maybe good for you for not!). Can you send a pic of the clock in your car? That is great to have that close to you to remind you.