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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1990C4S View Post
No one has mentioned the lowly scraper. A couple of flex paint scrapers for cleaning and patching. Plus a multi-tool that cleans rollers and scrapes.

If you have to strip a bit of paint, this is the tool:

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/scrapers/20094-carbide-tipped-scrapers
Interesting. I've got (or probably had) several putty knives. I don't think I've ever used one of those scrapers.

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Old 11-19-2020, 11:45 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #121 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by look 171 View Post
We cheat when it comes to coping stain grade joints on large crown.

Cut angle on sliding shop saw. Instead of using a coping saw, turn the molding upside down and take a small grinder with a course grit sanding pad with rigid back and sand away up to the profile. Its very quick and accurate because you can see exactly where to stop and have crisp joints. If needed, take that grinder to remove more materials to get a better fit in seconds.

Old world craftsmen will turn over at their graves when they see us doing this or maybe they will say, where the hell is that tool when we were doing this.
It's been 20 years or so now, but we used to cheat using a table saw; move the guide out of the way (we never believed in guards in the first place) and slowly skim the back extra part that you would normally cut off. You have to really lean over the table saw to be precise, but being able to move the blade up and down helps.
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Old 11-19-2020, 11:54 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #122 (permalink)
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I'd suggest the regular flat plate scrapers - much more versatile - and cheaper. Straight edge and a set of curved:

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/scrapers/32671-bahco-scraper?item=97K5002
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/scrapers/32639-super-hard-curved-scraper-sets

Once the technique for use is learned these can save you a LOT of sandpaper.
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Last edited by MBAtarga; 11-19-2020 at 12:43 PM..
Old 11-19-2020, 12:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #123 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
I do this too but I have used a Collins Foot on crown successfully. My CM installations dwindled to once every six months to none so I'm out of practice. It's an art for sure and not like getting on a bicycle after a few years.



We have a couple of those Collins base. Bought them when they first came out (I used to a sucker for tools). Still not as accurate and easy as the grinder. That radical angle the jig saw has to perform in isn't not always accurate with the blade dancing all over the place. I think once you try and angle grinder method, you will never go back. We haven't installed any large stain grade crown in a few years. There's not too much call for that anymore unless its a grand old house. We worked on a few Craftsman and Spanish colonial homes around Pasadena and the foothills. We are currently in the process of bidding on a craftsman that's built in 1912. No crown but lots of finish woodwork. Its a complete gut out job.
Old 11-19-2020, 12:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #124 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TimBer View Post
It's been 20 years or so now, but we used to cheat using a table saw; move the guide out of the way (we never believed in guards in the first place) and slowly skim the back extra part that you would normally cut off. You have to really lean over the table saw to be precise, but being able to move the blade up and down helps.
Same concept, but much safer and easier. Its much easier to move the grinder and have the crown sitting flat as you chew away at the materials not needed.
Old 11-19-2020, 12:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #125 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by look 171 View Post
We are currently in the process of bidding on a craftsman that's built in 1912. No crown but lots of finish woodwork. Its a complete gut out job.
Oh my, I really hope they are wanting to restore it and keep it's character rather than convert to modern. We saw a bunch of houses here that were old and had character on the outside, then on the inside they were sterile and looked like any new house in any neighborhood with all of the character erased. It's painful to see a great old house converted with tons of drywall, open floor plan, granite or quartz, etc....
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Old 11-19-2020, 01:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #126 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by look 171 View Post
Same concept, but much safer and easier. Its much easier to move the grinder and have the crown sitting flat as you chew away at the materials not needed.
I remember the 6' - 8' pieces being difficult to control. But, our foreman would have killed us if every inside miter joint had a 1' - 2' piece on one side.
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Old 11-19-2020, 01:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #127 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1990C4S View Post
No one has mentioned the lowly scraper. A couple of flex paint scrapers for cleaning and patching. Plus a multi-tool that cleans rollers and scrapes.

If you have to strip a bit of paint, this is the tool:

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/scrapers/20094-carbide-tipped-scrapers
Quote:
Originally Posted by MBAtarga View Post
I'd suggest the regular flat plate scrapers - much more versatile - and cheaper. Straight edge and a set of curved:

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/scrapers/32671-bahco-scraper?item=97K5002
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/scrapers/32639-super-hard-curved-scraper-sets

Once the technique for use is learned these can save you a LOT of sandpaper.
I'm guessing Two different items are being discussed or maybe I'm wrong.

These are cool, I'd never seen or heard of these before.



and paint scrapers, whether they are hook scrapers, the multitool thing in the video below or more like a stiff putty knife.
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'08 Boxster RS60 Spyder #0099/1960
- never named a car before, but this is Charlotte.
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Old 11-19-2020, 01:12 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #128 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by masraum View Post
Oh my, I really hope they are wanting to restore it and keep it's character rather than convert to modern. We saw a bunch of houses here that were old and had character on the outside, then on the inside they were sterile and looked like any new house in any neighborhood with all of the character erased. It's painful to see a great old house converted with tons of drywall, open floor plan, granite or quartz, etc....
We have done a few of those. One being a Greene and Greene brother's. So far, as far as I know, all details are being kept. There will be updates because the owners are planning to line in it so things like recess lights in a certain area will be added like baths and laundry. I am going to suggest relocating toilets and other plumbing to a more modern design. In those days, the toilet were considered only something the wealth can afford, as well as indoor plumbing. So the toilet were often seen as soon so you open the door. We are not having that. Frame-less glass shower panels without an actual door will be added instead of the original small claw foot tub that only fit an 8 year old. Stuff like that will be changed out. Oh, HVAC too, so there's no need for a fan anymore.
Old 11-19-2020, 02:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #129 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by look 171 View Post
We have done a few of those. One being a Greene and Greene brother's. So far, as far as I know, all details are being kept. There will be updates because the owners are planning to line in it so things like recess lights in a certain area will be added like baths and laundry. I am going to suggest relocating toilets and other plumbing to a more modern design. In those days, the toilet were considered only something the wealth can afford, as well as indoor plumbing. So the toilet were often seen as soon so you open the door. We are not having that. Frame-less glass shower panels without an actual door will be added instead of the original small claw foot tub that only fit an 8 year old. Stuff like that will be changed out. Oh, HVAC too, so there's no need for a fan anymore.
Right, you can make some updates without killing the character.
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Old 11-19-2020, 02:33 PM
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Here's the mess. Its really bad. I sent them back with a rough estimate and now they are counting all their pennies. We will see.


I can't seem to load a screen shot photo?

Be back. Running out to post office before they close.
Old 11-19-2020, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by look 171 View Post
We have a couple of those Collins base. Bought them when they first came out (I used to a sucker for tools). Still not as accurate and easy as the grinder. That radical angle the jig saw has to perform in isn't not always accurate with the blade dancing all over the place. I think once you try and angle grinder method, you will never go back. We haven't installed any large stain grade crown in a few years. There's not too much call for that anymore unless its a grand old house. We worked on a few Craftsman and Spanish colonial homes around Pasadena and the foothills. We are currently in the process of bidding on a craftsman that's built in 1912. No crown but lots of finish woodwork. Its a complete gut out job.
Oh, I do use an angle sander not just for crown and coping base, I backcut and scribe other moldings with it. IN the AL house I mentioned we had a 5-stack cornice and really out of square and plumb walls joining ceilings. Ceilings dipped and waved like aroller coaster. I was taking as much as 3/4 and even an inch out of some of them so the scribe wasn't too severe. Lots o' fun. Don't put a laser level on that job!]

Down there I was the guy in the garage making sash on site. I did it on site with a router whereas here in my shot I make custom sash with a shaper. I gues I wanted to point out that having a nice selection of router bits is very handy. I think a simple kit is 50 bucks and name brand too. Those are a bargain because if you go and buy a hinge mortise bit, a couple of round overs, a bearing guided flush trim bit you're at 50 bucks right there buying any name brand bit individually.

If you have a shop like Jef has and I used to, you buy the basic router bits in 6-packs.

Just kidding, but you do end up replacing the often used bits after you can't feasibly sharpen them anymore. I don't mind having some HSS bit around that I can change the profile some. Carbide is great and you face the back of the cutting edge until it becomes a PITA, then you buy new.

BTW, if you're looking at routers make sure you can use a 1/2" collet. 1/2" bits are really the better way to go with anything but small stuff. I think Steve said freehanding a router was tricky, it shouldn't be, but with a 1/2 bit there is much les chatter to make things butter smooth.
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Old 11-19-2020, 05:22 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #132 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
Oh, I do use an angle sander not just for crown and coping base, I backcut and scribe other moldings with it. IN the AL house I mentioned we had a 5-stack cornice and really out of square and plumb walls joining ceilings. Ceilings dipped and waved like aroller coaster. I was taking as much as 3/4 and even an inch out of some of them so the scribe wasn't too severe. Lots o' fun. Don't put a laser level on that job!]

Down there I was the guy in the garage making sash on site. I did it on site with a router whereas here in my shot I make custom sash with a shaper. I gues I wanted to point out that having a nice selection of router bits is very handy. I think a simple kit is 50 bucks and name brand too. Those are a bargain because if you go and buy a hinge mortise bit, a couple of round overs, a bearing guided flush trim bit you're at 50 bucks right there buying any name brand bit individually.

If you have a shop like Jef has and I used to, you buy the basic router bits in 6-packs.

Just kidding, but you do end up replacing the often used bits after you can't feasibly sharpen them anymore. I don't mind having some HSS bit around that I can change the profile some. Carbide is great and you face the back of the cutting edge until it becomes a PITA, then you buy new.

BTW, if you're looking at routers make sure you can use a 1/2" collet. 1/2" bits are really the better way to go with anything but small stuff. I think Steve said freehanding a router was tricky, it shouldn't be, but with a 1/2 bit there is much les chatter to make things butter smooth.
You know, Milt, its has gotten so difficult to find people that do that kind of work, even here in a huge city like LA. I spend a lot of my college years hanging large crown, coffered ceilings in Hankcock Park. Don't remind me about out of square walls and ceilings with bellies. One of my guy and myself still hang those difficult or should I say, challenging finish carpentry. He's 33, so I hope I can pass on that knowledge. during my 20s, I can't wait to hang out with the old guys that did all the complex work both in the shop and out in the field installing. Like most, I am self taught only to take a peek at the old man when they are working to absorbed what I can.

I have an 1 1/4 shaper that has not been turned on in a long time. Not too many designers or younger contractors know us. We used to service the old timers out of my shop. Younger guys that are my age are not too interested in that type or restoration and often afraid afraid of the complex details (good, more for me). They like the typical, run of the mill type work even in these bigger homes, and call it custom. I actual like the modern, slim line type work and has been about 50% of our business. With the right designer, they actually look pretty good.
Old 11-19-2020, 05:53 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #133 (permalink)
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I forgot to mention, Steve. The bench dog doesn't have to be square. Drill a 3/4" hold and use a wood dowel. I attach a small square block to the end of the dowel to keep it from falling into the hole. I am cheap.
Old 11-19-2020, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by look 171 View Post
Be back. Running out to post office before they close.
Sweet!
Quote:
Originally Posted by look 171 View Post
You know, Milt, its has gotten so difficult to find people that do that kind of work, even here in a huge city like LA. I spend a lot of my college years hanging large crown, coffered ceilings in Hankcock Park. Don't remind me about out of square walls and ceilings with bellies. One of my guy and myself still hang those difficult or should I say, challenging finish carpentry. He's 33, so I hope I can pass on that knowledge. during my 20s, I can't wait to hang out with the old guys that did all the complex work both in the shop and out in the field installing. Like most, I am self taught only to take a peek at the old man when they are working to absorbed what I can.

I have an 1 1/4 shaper that has not been turned on in a long time. Not too many designers or younger contractors know us. We used to service the old timers out of my shop. Younger guys that are my age are not too interested in that type or restoration and often afraid afraid of the complex details (good, more for me). They like the typical, run of the mill type work even in these bigger homes, and call it custom. I actual like the modern, slim line type work and has been about 50% of our business. With the right designer, they actually look pretty good.
Yep, I think I missed my opportunity to learn from the old guys. It would have been much better than working in malls and fast food joints.
Quote:
Originally Posted by look 171 View Post
I forgot to mention, Steve. The bench dog doesn't have to be square. Drill a 3/4" hold and use a wood dowel. I attach a small square block to the end of the dowel to keep it from falling into the hole. I am cheap.
Right, I've watched a bunch of videos and seen them in round and square. The round seems like the way to go. Good tip on the block on top so they don't fall through.

And these holdfasts have that old fashioned charm


Something like this seems like a better option.
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'08 Boxster RS60 Spyder #0099/1960
- never named a car before, but this is Charlotte.
'88 targa SOLD 2004 - gone but not forgotten
Old 11-19-2020, 06:36 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #135 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
Down there I was the guy in the garage making sash on site. I did it on site with a router whereas here in my shot I make custom sash with a shaper. I gues I wanted to point out that having a nice selection of router bits is very handy. I think a simple kit is 50 bucks and name brand too. Those are a bargain because if you go and buy a hinge mortise bit, a couple of round overs, a bearing guided flush trim bit you're at 50 bucks right there buying any name brand bit individually.

If you have a shop like Jef has and I used to, you buy the basic router bits in 6-packs.

Just kidding, but you do end up replacing the often used bits after you can't feasibly sharpen them anymore. I don't mind having some HSS bit around that I can change the profile some. Carbide is great and you face the back of the cutting edge until it becomes a PITA, then you buy new.

BTW, if you're looking at routers make sure you can use a 1/2" collet. 1/2" bits are really the better way to go with anything but small stuff. I think Steve said freehanding a router was tricky, it shouldn't be, but with a 1/2 bit there is much les chatter to make things butter smooth.
Thanks, good info. I think most of my routing has been in oak, which I assume is probably a little tougher to hold steady than it would be in something like pine. Probably more likely is that I was just doing it wrong.
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Old 11-19-2020, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by masraum View Post
Sweet!

Yep, I think I missed my opportunity to learn from the old guys. It would have been much better than working in malls and fast food joints.


Right, I've watched a bunch of videos and seen them in round and square. The round seems like the way to go. Good tip on the block on top so they don't fall through.

And these holdfasts have that old fashioned charm


Something like this seems like a better option.
Those have their place in the shop. But the bench dog will work with the vice I gave ya. The little tab comes up and long pieces can be clamped to the bench dog and have a completely flat surface to work. Clamp will not get in the way.
Old 11-19-2020, 06:55 PM
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Thanks, good info. I think most of my routing has been in oak, which I assume is probably a little tougher to hold steady than it would be in something like pine. Probably more likely is that I was just doing it wrong.
Feed into the rotation of the bit, always. You might have taken too large a cut?
Old 11-19-2020, 06:56 PM
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Feed into the rotation of the bit, always. You might have taken too large a cut?
I did eventually figure out to go a certain way with the router, kind of like feeding a table saw it's best to do it from a certain direction. And yes, I may have been cutting too much. I had purchased a few bits, but I may also have used bits that were my grandfathers. It could have been that I grabbed something that needed to be sharpened.
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Old 11-19-2020, 07:01 PM
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I did eventually figure out to go a certain way with the router, kind of like feeding a table saw it's best to do it from a certain direction. And yes, I may have been cutting too much. I had purchased a few bits, but I may also have used bits that were my grandfathers. It could have been that I grabbed something that needed to be sharpened.
Dull bits often make the router chatter so will taking too big a bite. Maybe the router isn't powerful enough? 1 hp or 1.5 is prefect.

Old 11-19-2020, 07:04 PM
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