Wow! $300? ROFLMAO. I'd have to have stopped laughing long enough to be angry. Yeah, sounds like you ran into exactly the same thing (but an order of magnitude smaller) that I ran into.

The dealership add this fee to every vehicle. This was the first new cat I bought in 20 years. The entire buying experience was tiring. I have an uncle and cousins who owned a car dealership for a very long time. They sold the business 20 years ago. They told me car cars stories. My take away is not much has changed since they sold their business.

From my experience, the "reconditioning fee" is what they charge to make it CPO so it carries the CPO warranty. That's why I ended up buying new! The cost to make it CPO so it came with a warranty put the car within the range of buying new and getting full warranty.

I had a dealer pull the window etching bs on me once. I wanted a specific color, so he traded a car on his lot with another dealer. I get the call "Other dealer already did window etching, it's $xx dollars, do you still want it?" I said yes, go to pick up the car, and they are peeling off the masking from the etching as I arrive........

Back in 1987 - went to a Jeep dealership as they had a Grand Cherokee with the trim package we were after. Most others available were fully loaded with power everything and ran about $10-15k more. I'm a numbers guy and had already done my homework with our credit union and knew the APR/payment amounts I was after. I don't recall the specifics but for grins let's say the APR was 6% and payments would be $300 for 5 years. I looked at the Cherokee, decided - yep that's the one. Sales guy pulls the 4 square method out on me - asks what I want the payments to be - and I say $1/month. He says - no I'm serious, and I answer I am too! :)

We keep going back and forth - he leaves his office to talk to the mgr a few times - and I get tired of it. I ask to deal with the mgr directly. Mgr comes in - I run down the price I'll pay and he agrees once he realizes I'm not haggling on it - otherwise I will walk. After the mgr leaves, sales guy tells me he has NEVER seen anyone buy a vehicle like I just did. I took that as a compliment.

They direct me to the finance department and I go sit down across the desk of the hottest sexiest long haired brunette you've ever seen. She pulls out some forms, prints out some stuff, asks me about financing - and I tell her I'd be interested in what they can offer. She gives me some 9% number, etc. I tell her my CU can give me 6%. She says she can come down to 7.5% or whatever - I tell her I'll just use my CU. She finally says something like - "that's the cost of my money" - and offers me 6.5%. I tell her I can't help that. She says okay - we'll do 6%. So I know the total amount financed and my 6% number - she types some stuff and tells me my payments will be $375/month. I'm like - what? The payments through my CU were about $300. She says - well don't you want life insurance on the payment? Don't you want fabric protection and under-body rust preventative? They were tacking on these things without any indication to me as to what they were adding. I'm certain that most guys sitting across from this hot gal would just give in and take whatever she said. Anyway - I got her to drop all the extras and finance the vehicle at my CU rate.

Dear Penthouse Forum,

Look at it this way. If those people are truly buyers, then they will be spending that money somewhere and someone is getting a commission. Might as well be you.

In a long ago job, Al Sharpton's group, National Action Network, was using a competitor. I knew I could beat the price and service, but hated the thought of dealing with any of his people or that I could in any way be helping him. BUT .... he was going to spend that money somewhere, no matter what I did. Why shouldn't I get a piece of it? I got it too. I slept ok.

I hate car dealers. Nothing about the experience is pleasant. I also consider my DD as an appliance so I’m not attached to them. Which means I’ll buy off the lot and decide quickly if it suits.

I get they are trying to make a living and they deal with a lot of people that can’t count but that back and forth to the manager to ‘try to get you a better deal’ is so damn transparent and so old.

Amongst all the others, we bought a lot of VWs over the years. Usually in under 15 minutes.
Haven’t been in since COVID, but heard that my sales guy retired - hopefully the sales manager is still around or we will be shopping a new dealer.

For some reason I’ve had more bad experiences at Toyota and Mercedes than anywhere else, but I’ve walked out of more than a dozen places because the salesman was playing games after I asked him - and it’s always a guy - not to.

My grandmother was a car person. My earliest memories of life were riding in her green '68 Mustang. She had more dollars than sense and cared about service more than price. She'd walk into her favorite dealership and say, "I have this trade and $20k cash. What can you do for me?" All of us here know that's just screaming out to be shafted. But she didn't see it that way and didn't feel like she was getting screwed when she went home with a car and at a price she wanted. It's not fraud or taking advantage of someone if it's all transparent, in writing and they're fine with it.

Sorry Scott but I would argue that if your story is true that somebody got fired. I’ve lost Manheim auctions to Carmax, contrary to their advertising about vetting their cars they buy just like every other dealer. Their cash offers are consistently below MMR (true wholesale value based on actual sales) to insure they can auction your car if it doesn’t sell on their lot. The consumer doesn’t get real values without having auction access, book values like KBB and NADA are basically retail funded. I’ve looked at Carmax cars on the lot that have blatant issues like broken parts or shot tires, they’ll basically tell you that if you buy the car they’ll fix the problems. They are convenient, they are less annoying, but they are no different.

I don't know about the back end of things, and I have driven some cars at CM that seemed like great cars (great shape). But, I've also run into some that clearly had issues. I remember driving one on a cool fall evening once. They had a loop that they'd let you drive around their lot, it may have been a mile. Less than half the way around the loop on a cool fall evening the temp gauge was higher than it should have been. I've also driven others that I wouldn't consider buying because they had issues. I'm not sure that there are enough "great" cars out there that all of the CM could fill those huge lots of theirs without some real dogs making it into the mix.

I don't know anything about their buying. I've never sold a car to them, and would assume I wouldn't get what I could, but that it would be quick and easy.

When I think of Carmax, I remember a guy in our old DC Porsche clique who was CM's paint guy at the dealership in NoVA. He snagged a 993tt for $44k around 2006 that they had taken in and had tired paint. But he could obviously deal with that very cheaply. Oh man, that was a smoking steal.

Do your homework on what the cars sell for and what your trade may be worth. The dealer will quote price guide books like NADA for used cars. NADA prices are the average asking price not the final selling price.

Dealers want to talk payments because you never get a true sense of what you are paying for the car.

They almost always ask up front if you have a trade because they will jack up the price of the car you are buying to make your trade worth more. Tell them no trade. They will throw you a high price offer and they ask what you would be willing to pay. Nope. Its your car and you know how much you paid for it. You tell me your bottom dollar out the door price. I tell them I don't want to go back and forth and talk to 3 people. Just come back with your best price that if I wanted any less than that they couldn't sell the car. When the number sounds right, I ask to see an itemized list of how they got to that number. When we are done with that, then you bring up a trade in since you ended up paying more than you planned. They will start to sweat right before your eyes because they don't want to admit that your sled is not worth what you think it is so they feel pressured to give you the most they can so they don't lose the deal. Check the numbers against your no trade quote to be sure the numbers are correct. Check the tax amount since in some states you pay tax on the price after the trade in has been deducted.

Beware of no haggle pricing that has a doc fee of $750-999.

If they are dealer trading for a specific new car you want that isn't on the lot, tell them up front you are not paying for add-on items like floor mats, paint protection, dealer added stripes, etc. If they can't find one without those things then fine but the negotiated price doesn't go up.

I had one occasion where I was coming back the next day to do the paperwork and pick up the car. I got a copy of the list of charges. It included a city sales tax charge. Since I was fairly sure there was no such thing, I called the tag office and asked if such a tax existed? Nope. I went in to pick up the car and told them of my phone call. They could either remove the charge or explain to the mayor about money they claimed they had to collect for the city. They did some fast back peddling on that one.

I once had the polar-opposite experience when I walked into an Audi store ready to buy a car they had on the lot. The idiot 'greeter' who met me at the door actually said that there was no one there who could sell me a car that day :confused: What a way to run a business...

Always be willing to walk away. My favorite time trying to buy a car was when I walked away after the salesman just would not listen to me. As I was walking out, the sales man actually said..."Hey man, I have to eat you know?" I paused and turned and said, "Not tonight." and walked out. Should have seen his face, Priceless.

My business partner is a guy that actually remains friends with lots of his ex-girlfriends. When they want to buy a car, they like to have him sitting there next to them listing to the deal. One chick was trading in a car and they were offering her a pretty low trade in value, and just making the new car sound cheaper. As the got down to the final deal they were offering her a few grand for her old car. Just before she signed he popped up and said I will buy the old car for that price and give you the money to put against the new car. The salesman had a look of horror on his face as she said just change the deal to no trade in, and we have a deal. My business partner bought the car, and took it to a used car dealer he knows as a friend, and sold it to him for a $1,000 more, and he of course sold it for more.

He has gone to dealerships and repair shops with ex-girlfriends and been able to save the chicks lots of money since he knows cars and does not allow the shop to sell him a new set of muffler bearings and top off the blinker fluid.

I am NOT a car buyer, I buy cheap cars from Craigslist, but six months ago a friend asked me to 'help' them buy a used car. he wanted a used Honda CRV in the $20k range, cash purchase, super simple.

I searched high and low for 'good' cars, with zero success, to the point where I was about to give up.

Out of desperation I went to my local Honda dealer. They had a good selection of really clean well serviced cars from lease trade-ins. The sales guy was upfront about service, accidents, and what needed work on the car. He gave me an all in price and I bought the car the next day.

two weeks ago my daughter said she wanted a CRV. Back the same guy, bought a car two days later.

Did I pay a small premium? Probably, but it was super simple, and they are both great cars stil in warranty.

Totally opposite of what I expected form the 'sleazy used car lot'.

Sounds like you found a good source. I'd stick with that. That's the sort of experience that I want. I may not get the absolute cheapest price, but I'm not hugely overpaying and I don't feel like I'm getting bent over or having to work for it. I'll pay a little extra for a smoother, friendlier experience.

We have walked out on two dealerships looking at used cars. One, the salesman would never tell us the price of the car, just talked finance and payments. We have never looked at that dealership since. The other we knew what we wanted and about what we should pay. They were asking way too much and we went across the street and bought the same make/model but fully loaded for less than what the first guy was asking. As we walked out he was saying he could do the deal that we asked for. We never looked back. The one we bought now has 194k miles on it. I need a front fender (replaced from a deer collision and aftermarket sucks) and bumper for it though.

Got the better half a two year old Honda CR-V to replace hers that had 160k on it. Did the homework on pricing, etc. and walked in to see a specific car they advertised. It was still in the back getting prepped, they had bought it from a couple they sold it to who were moving overseas. Short version is I had our number pretty firm, told the sales gal I would only go back and forth twice as far as price and I wanted to see the breakdown of how they got there. This was a CPO and they had included all the items they did, doc fees, taxes, etc. I got out a red pen and lined through 90% of the BS fees, circled what our number was and handed it back. The GM and finance guy came out of their dens and said no way they could do it. I said this is a one time offer, cash price, and no trade in, etc. They huddled and then came back and said OK, so I asked for it in writing good for 24 hours, and they huddled again. We got the car and brought her old one in to see if they were interested and they actually had a customer looking for an old, reliable CR-V to took it for $2k. Got the CPO warranty and updated GPS CD, and out the door. It's a business, but you have to do major homework and have an attitude when dealing with them. Painful process.

Nice outcome. You've got to know what's going on. I/we rarely buy cars. I think I've only purschased cars from big dealers a half dozen times in my life. I don't make out too badly, but every time it's a bit more of an education.

My worst story got a sales manager fired. I’m self employed and at one point was considering leasing a car due to the tax advantages. Dodge had a good lease offer on the Charger Scatpack so I decided to go take a look. Talked to the typical salesman, who introduces me to the sales manager before my test drive. The sales manager asked me if I was going to buy today, I told him no because I have other cars to look at before I make a decision. He told me that it’s a 500 HP car (it isn’t) and that they only let buyers test drive their cars. Now getting pissed I asked him how I would know if I wanted to buy a car if I couldn’t drive it, he again repeated that they don’t waste their time with people who aren’t buyers. My wife senses that I’m about to lose my $h!t and tells me that we don’t want to buy a car from this dealership and drags me out.

So to set the stage this is my wife and I driving our nearly brand new family car at the time, a nice Ford Flex Limited. At the time 39, dressed nicely as we were going out for dinner after our test drive, and the only customers in the Dodge dealership. Nothing to justify getting blown off like that. Turns out when telling the story the next day to a contractor friend, he has remodeled three kitchens for the wealthy entrepreneur that owns this Dodge dealership. And he is VERY interested to hear about how one of his sales managers ran off a qualified buyer. I told the story, described the guy, and heard a few days later that he had been fired. Karma!

Almost without fail, those buyers who get laid away (pay far more than they need to) seem to be the happiest customers most dealerships encounter. On the other hand are those who grind ... and grind ... and grind ... for every nickle they can save - these invariably seem to be the least happy.

Anyway, to your question:

Rule number one; never, ever, ever tell a dealership up front that you've arranged your own financing or will be paying cash.

They'll often give away most or all of the front-end (sales department) margin if they believe they'll pick it up on the back-end (finance department).

Negotiate your price based on using their financing. When in the F&I office, reject all additional insurance, etching, extended warranties, etc. that you don't want. If you're polite, while at the same time clear and forceful, most won't waste much time trying to sell it to you - they'll just want to finish the paperwork and get you out of there.

From here you can do a couple of things: 1) have them to print the contract so you can read it. Find the "Amount Financed" line and let them know you've changed your mind and will simply write them a check. Understand though, that you risk blowing up the entire deal, as they won't be too happy having this ploy used against them. 2) Make certain there's no prepayment penalty on the loan (probably pretty rare these days, if it's even still legal), sign the papers, go home with your new car and pay it off in full right away.

_

Right, I've never used dealership financing, but I never tell them that. I always say "we'll deal with that later." and negotiate the price.

I used #2 one time with a new F150. Financed to get a big Ford rebate, financed the minimum amount for the minimum amount of time and then paid in full. I think I had to finance $10k for 60 days or something like that.

When I bought my Tundra I had a
choice of financing at 2% (I think) or $1000 off.

I just go to the dealership and say "here's what I'm willing to pay based on comparable vehicles". If they take it, I have a new vehicle. If not, I walk out. A local learned that when I say "this is the price I will pay" that I mean just that. I told them what I was willing to pay based on another new vehicle. They said "we can't do that" I said "Okay" and bought the other vehicle. When the salesman called me back I told them "you're too late, I bought one"

The low interest rate or money back deal is nothing more than a buydown. I've played that game on equipment. A buyer wants a better rate, I tell them "I can do that but I don't have any negotiation in price". That's because I can use what I would normally negotiate down to, to buy the interest rate down through a lender.

At least your manager didn't tell you "don't be afraid to get on your knees in the parking lot" like the manager did me when I tried to sell cars.

Wow! Clearly that was before #metoo.

Did you ask them Is that how you got to be manager?

Most of our new cars lately have been Honda's. We use the dealer financing when it makes sense. Both my wife and son have 0.9% loans. Cheap money.

Correct! Just bought a 2020 Forester a few months ago. I was looking for a used, less than 10K mile CPO model but the prices were not far off the price of new. For an extra few bucks, I will take new any day and not worry about proper break in and previous abuse. But, with the prices of used these days it made $$ sense to this retired Purchasing guy.

And, pay attention to the damn fees and walk if necessary. I bought a 2012 Forester demo with 2000 on the clock and they refused to waive the Transportation Fee of $750. I stood up to leave when the 2nd "my boss" guy refused. He capitulated and I got the car. Why would I pay a fee on a car they used to sell other cars?

And, I always pay cash so their profits are minimized on my "out the door" price. Having spent a career haggling some serious aerospace contracts, I have little patience for haggling car numbers. The price is either good or not and there are other dealers.

We bought a new sedan in 2014 because a used one was only $1700 less and two years older with 25-35k miles and the 4 pot instead of the V6 we wanted.

That is part of why we ordered the car we wanted. My wife used the web site to "build her car" the way she wanted it. The used Macans at the time were just a couple grand cheaper. We took a test drive and did what most people do on a test drive, do an acceleration run, and that is NOT part of the break in procedure in the manual. We did indeed do the proper breaking in the manual. And all the options and colors are precisely what she wanted.It cost a few grand more but happy wife = happy life.