Not really. Too many variables. These are bookshelf-size background speakers.

The basic answer is "not very loud but acceptable for background music and an occasional announcement." Certainly not loud enough for every event, which goes to the suggestion before it about rentals or something. SmileWavy

JYL:

Here's what I would do - Forget about your criteria. Seriously, you can't do anything with that set of requirements.

1. Describe who you're catering to. The budget, the expectations, size of event, what type of sound they want.

2. Ask for suggestions: gear, set up and tear down manpower, and budget. Also what type of revenue the system alone can add to the venue.

3. Will there be a change in the venue itself? In other words, future expansion, renovation, etc.

I didn't want to comment on this thread because basically you're trying to "cheap out" on your solution. I have zero interest in going to a clapped out cheap ass venue that thinks it's a library but talks like a dance hall.

The 85db thing is still a tough one for me, where would that be measured?

Inside in the middle vs just barely outside the door is going to be a 5db difference and 10' from the building itself a pretty big jump again, so maybe we are misunderstanding.

Because as Gogar says, 85db just with a room full of people is easy to hit.

db is also a weird scale to try and aim for sometimes because loudness doubles every 3db if I recall correctly.

So maybe something like

1. https://www.rockvilleaudio.com/rcs350-612-wet-6w/ - a 350 watt 70-volt amp with IR remote + twelve 70-volt speakers with 6.5” drivers

2. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085W1PPHL/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_01JV5V1N3YH8ZXK2DYP2 - 4 into 1 RCA switch

3. adapter cables to RCA from USB-A, USB-C, HDMI and Lightning

4. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RJLKBRD/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_AZH7WWEERCSWWXQJNFXV - Wireless mic system

5. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B018YHUE5Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_NF5F87M3XNBPS2W3Z5DM - 500 ft roll of 16 ga speaker wire in white sheath

Would total around $1300 ish, a little above my budget, but I wouldn’t need a separate PA system for the speeches etc. Seems very DIYable. Renter plugs in their iPod, phone, USB stick, laptop (most will use a laptop) using the appropriate RCA-to-whatever adapter cable, chooses the source on the RCA switch (or the manager helps them) - or they use Bluetooth - then voila they have sound for their event. No matter how they screw with the amp, they can’t get it too loud because we’ve tapped the speakers appropriately. If one half of the room needs conversation-level sound (i.e. lower) they can turn down volume for that zone (or manager does it). If they use the mic, the amp detects the mic signal and mutes/ducks the music by a user-selectable amount. If we need more speakers, like for the mezzanine, I can add more 70 volt speakers and zones. If we need more power, the amp’s line out can feed another amp which can drive more speakers. If we want speakers somewhere that is hard to reach with wire, the line out can feed a wireless powered speaker system. The speakers are not as sleek looking as pendants, but will be easier to install (getting to the ceiling requires a ladder of a height that I, as a matter of policy, decline to climb) and being able to aim them might be handy, and they are white so won’t be visually obtrusive.

Rockville advertises a 90 day money back guarantee, which I’ll ask them about, but hopefully I can lay the speakers out on the floor and get a sense of whether they will reach 85 dB in the ballroom and generally whether the whole thing will work for us, and return it if needed.

Sound good (pun!) to the brain trust?

Oh, about the live band thing. I am not inclined to install anything to accommodate a live band or a pro DJ. Seems to me the bands and DJs can bring their own sound gear, I just need to make sure the electrical circuits to the stage are adequate. I just want to provide a basic sound system for the renters who are not hiring a band or DJ. Which is fairly common. We are trying to be an affordable wedding venue. Also, we’d like to get more fundraiser, awards, social party, business retreat, meetings, etc sort of events. Those don’t hire bands. (They often do need a good projector and screen, which is my next thing to figure out.)

The actual criteria is no more than 65 dB at the property line, which is about 40 feet from the building (yes, there was a lawsuit and legal settlement many years ago). I’m told by the former manager that this means holding sound level inside the ballroom to about 85 dB and keeping the doors closed. They used a dB meter to monitor and the manager sometimes had to get the renters to turn down the music, which was occasionally contentious. I don’t know why they used dB instead of another scale.

There were other restrictions adopted to keep the peace, like ending events at 9 pm and limiting event size to 150 persons. We’ll see if we need to stick to those, but initially we will. We are the neighborhood association after all, so we are mindful of the nearby neighbors. I’m going to invite one of them to join the the committee overseeing the club’s operation.

Does the neighborhood association need a meeting place?

Do they have a budget? Where does their money come from? Maybe they'd like to share in the profits or want an annual contribution based on the dance hall's business?

Have you met individually with the board members? Do you have a sense of what will splinter their voting group?

65dB at the property line is roughly the equivalent of a kitchen refrigerator at 2-3 feet. Does this ridiculous number apply ** ALL DAY ** AND AT NIGHT?

If so, then the hall has agreed to go bankrupt so you can just forget it.

It is indeed a peculiar situation. This is a century old social club building that is in a residential neighborhood, bordering a particularly beautiful city park. It seems to have a market niche - moderate size, lower key weddings in a historic building that doesn’t cost much to rent (typically around $2400 to rent it for a wedding). The former owner, a private club, were pretty “thrifty” in how they ran the venue side of things. The carpets were worn, the paint scheme was dark, the facilities were very limited, etc. As I mentioned in the first post, the sound system was four home “hifi” speakers from the 60s or 70s. As part of due diligence, I called local wedding planners and the response was “of course we know the place, historic building, great location, but it’s dingy, needs to be brought into this decade”. And there was zero marketing being done. Despite all that, the venue rentals brought in enough revenue to pay the staff and support the building. So I think we’ll be able to do fine, with the improvements we’re making, and we don’t need to draw renters who want what we can’t provide.

In Portland, if you want to rent a venue of this sort, especially if you want a large dance floor, the choices are quite limited. Many of them are in areas of the city that, right now, look like hell - boarded up storefronts, sidewalks lined with tents, sketchy or deranged people wandering around, asking for money or being nasty because you have, presumably, a home and a job. We, being in a rather more pleasant location, won’t have any problem booking up. So far the hit rate is decent: from 10 email or phone inquiries, about 1-2 come tour in person, and of those, 4 of 5 end up booking. The rate of inquiries has been rising, as people start planning events again now that the light at the end of the Covid tunnel is visible. I think demand will be unusually strong in the back half of this year and probably next year. I’ve also found someone who is willing to manage the marketing and rentals for very little money, virtually free this year and not much after that. So my job is to get the place able to reopen in two months and at least break even for 2021.

I’m on the association board. There’s not a problem, and won’t be a problem, with the board voting dynamics. We don’t “need” a new meeting place, as the local church lets us use their multipurpose room, though with Covid our meeting place has been Zoom for the past year. As the owners of this building, we will eventually start using it ourselves and we’ll receive all net income from this building. The noise restriction is less stringent during the day, but yes, the venue has to be run in a way that doesn’t bother the neighbors. Now, I don’t know that the neighbors patrol their property line with decibel meters. And since the building is now owned by their neighborhood association, and they’ll be going to neighborhood events there, I think they’ll be a little more understanding of the occasional transgression. (We’ve knocked on all their doors and spoken with them, and that’s the sense I get.) I’m not too concerned about that leading to BK, since the venue has been historically self supporting under the same restrictions. We are a non-profit and have no debt from acquiring the property, so the financial situation is rather less demanding than for other similar venues.

^ I have dealt with those type of neighbors. I own and run a regional carnival.

I bought a calibrated Reed Instruments sound meter. The calibration tool ends all debate about accuracy.

Decibels is a relative measurement. Not an absolute. For example, you must use the dB meter and a distance measuring device in order to get the relative sound level. You say 85dB at 40 feet.

I think your starting point is to get some clarification regarding the sound level at a certain time of day at agreed reference points upon the property and then work back from there.

No point in designing a system that can't be used. You need a vote and have that stuff written down.

"dB measurements" are almost exclusively misunderstood by a fretful neighbor with a "dB meter."

The first and most often misunderstood is the 'weighting' of the reading. The measurement is taken with (most commonly) "A-weighting" and "C-weighting" of the reading.

"A-weighting" applies a curve similar to the natural frequency response of the human ear, and responds less to low frequencies and very high frequencies.

"C-Weighting" is more or less linear from low to high.

The sound of people talking in a room "a-weighted" vs "c-weighted" would probably meter about the same, but Music played by a band in the same room, with some low end or a subwoofer could easily meter a 10 or 20 dB difference in level.

Another problem with metering standards for these kinds of situations is "instantaneous" vs an "average over time."

We dealt with this daily (back in the before time when my kinda work existed.)

If you want to win the war of the meter then you need to just be knowledgable about

1. What 'weighting' is the reading and
2. If it's instantaneous or an average over a certain time.

An A-weighted 10 second average reading of 85 dB could be quite manageable, whereas an instantaneous C-weighted reading of under 85 dB is largely unattainable, ever.


JYL As far as your choices in Post #24 go, YES they are fine choices inasmuch as the kind of idea that myself and Mystic Llama were pushing. With the caviat that you have chosen basically the 'harbor-freight' version of every single component. No judgement, as long as you have the proper expectations. And, it's what you have to work with for your project right now. I feel like it might work out just fine.

Question - for this sort of thing, mono is fine, right?

Okay, interesting thing. I was introduced to a DJ who has been doing events in this club for 30 years, very familiar with the venue, sound gear needed for it, venue noise limits, type of events, etc. Older guy, he used to have multiple crews providing music to different events, also used to buy and sell pro audio stuff. Anyway, we’re going to meet at the club in the coming week or two. He’s going to give me some advice on the situation.

“Harbor Freight” level of sound will be fine to me. I need to get this place ready to reopen soonish. Covid may of course intervene, but as of right now we have events booked starting end of April, and we want to honor those bookings. We’ve got carpet, landscaping, paint finish, drapes, all kinds of stuff to do, and a manager to hire. If I can spend $1-2K and get a passable solution that will get us reopened and making revenue again, that’s great.

Yes mono is common for things like installed 70v so that everyone hears the same thing across the room. If you play a Beatles record, for example.

That's great that you can talk to someone who knows the room. He will probably won't be too excited on a 70v install but it will be interesting to see what he suggests for 1k. He too will probably also suggest $5k. :) maybe some powered speakers on sticks or something more traditional

Actually, if desired, I think he might even set up and loan us equipment for an extended period (a year etc). He has a whole lot of pro gear sitting idle with no users/buyers, and would appreciate being on our list of preferred vendors. I am not sure of the suitability of used DJ-type gear but we'll see.

It is interesting - this club has been here for a century, has a lot of history, and many have warm feelings toward it. We've met a lot of people who want to help it to reopen, especially by a non-profit with a community mission.