Ram 2500.... Suspect a bent frame

[Arizona_928]

I rammed my Ram into a dodge avenger on the highway in Aug 2019 in Phoenix. Some of you may remember the poetic justice of the guy leaving his bumper behind and having his insurance take full liability. Fast forward 1.75 years later and I'm wearing the front right tire in 7500 miles. I've been trying to get an alignment for the last few months, but life. So yesterday i find a shop to put it on the rack, and my toe is obviously messed up. No adjustment is available as the tie rod bar is solid? At this time I'm highly suspecting my frame is bent.

[fastfredracing]

Toe has to be adjustable .

[Brando]

I guess that's how the other driver 'avenged' you hitting them. Have you checked your steering rack's alignment? The upper/lower control arms? Not sure how you could check the frame's alignment without throwing it on a bench, stripping the suspension.

Actually... Now I'm starting to wonder about the frame rigidity over time on these 3rd gen trucks. After all-new suspension hardware in August 2020 (upper arms, lower arms, steering rack, tie-rods, bushings, swaybar drop-links) my front toe-out was crazy. Not sure if it was because the prior shop did a bad install on the steering rack, or if there is some underlying issue. I took it in for an alignment in January, 3.6* front right, 0.19* front left - they adjusted it to "within spec" and said come back in March to re-check it.

Follow-up question, how is it running?

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by fastfredracing

Toe has to be adjustable .

The shop said something about the total toe being adjustable, but not per side.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by Brando

I guess that's how the other driver 'avenged' you hitting them. Have you checked your steering rack's alignment? The upper/lower control arms? Not sure how you could check the frame's alignment without throwing it on a bench, stripping the suspension.

Actually... Now I'm starting to wonder about the frame rigidity over time on these 3rd gen trucks. After all-new suspension hardware in August 2020 (upper arms, lower arms, steering rack, tie-rods, bushings, swaybar drop-links) my front toe-out was crazy. Not sure if it was because the prior shop did a bad install on the steering rack, or if there is some underlying issue. I took it in for an alignment in January, 3.6* front right, 0.19* front left - they adjusted it to "within spec" and said come back in March to re-check it.

Follow-up question, how is it running?

Running bad mpg conpared to a coworker that isn't deleted.
I'm getting 16 mpg deleted.

[Jeff Hail]

If you are suspecting a bent frame need to have the frame measured. Based on the alignment values in my opinion are out of spec are from wear and tear.

An alignment printout with Steering Axis Inclination values is key in determining structure and/or component damage.

Your steering is adjustable at two places, at the tie rod and the drag link. Its a cruddy z system taken from Jeep design but it works. The biggest issues are lack of adjustment. Chrysler /Dodge does have two recalls for the drag link. Not sure it it has been done to your vehicle or not. It may have the recall done where a small weld was performed to the jamb nut at the adjuster sleeve. (they loosen over time).

Looking at the values read by your shop should be enough adjustment at the tie rod to get the toe in spec. The adjustment at the drag link is for straight ahead and centering of the steering wheel. The caster is adjusted with eccentrics on this model.

Synergy makes a steering linkage kit that replaces the long center link and upper drag link placing adjustment joints at all end points. Chrysler /Dodge should have done this in hindsight. The Synergy kit would make your life a lot easier.

The Rams do wear front tires unless you rotate them constantly at 3500 miles intervals. A bulletin exists on this. Other than that get your toe issue fixed (which is not a frame problem) and you should be good.

A good alignment shop can also loosen your rear spring shackles and get your axle housing positioned closer to left 0 and right 0.5 -typical these are off from the factory.

[asphaltgambler]

So - as Fred pointed out, toe is adjustable at each front wheel assembly. Relative toe is each front wheel to the other traveling exactly perpendicular to the thrust angle of the rear. Total toe is the summation of the two wheels with the steering wheel centered with the slope of the dash.

I've never seen a vehicle where there was not an adjustment to do both. Because it would be physically impossible to set the front track and center the steering wheel.

If you can, get on you side or back, take some pix and post your front steering linkage.

Also, looking at rear toe and summation of the two the thrust angle us very close to dead ahead for a production vehicle. It could be better, with some front spring eye bolt loosening, prying, re- tightening but from those measurements, the frame is not bent, or if it is not where the area near suspension attaching points

[Jeff Hail]

Originally Posted by asphaltgambler

So - as Fred pointed out, toe is adjustable at each front wheel assembly. Relative toe is each front wheel to the other traveling exactly perpendicular to the thrust angle of the rear. Total toe is the summation of the two wheels with the steering wheel centered with the slope of the dash.

I've never seen a vehicle where there was not an adjustment to do both. Because it would be physically impossible to set the front track and center the steering wheel.

If you can, get on you side or back, take some pix and post your front steering linkage.

Should be this system which is on both the 2500 and 3500's

[asphaltgambler]

......and thar you go^^^^^^^^^^on the driver's side of the drag link / tie rod assy you can see the adjustable sleeve. Which allows the total toe between the two front wheels to be adjusted. The steering arm above that is attached to the pitman arm / box there is an adjustment sleeve to allow centering of the steering wheel relative to the front wheel track.

You have too much toe-in, not way too much, but enough to wear the tires over time. In a rear wheel drive vehicle, you need slight total toe-in on the front wheels because they are being 'pushed' forward and tend to roll outwards or toe-out. There is a natural tendency to do that as they roll down the road.

[speeder]

Excellent thread, Pelican Army to the rescue. As someone who has visited other forums for help w things, nothing comes close to this place for expertise and speed and quality of responses.++

FWIW, the set-up pictured above is pretty similar to my older Super Duty 4x4 front end. Easy to align, just large components compared to a car. There is an old saying in the auto repair business, "if a vehicle takes more than a half an hour to align, either there is something wrong w the car or the guy doesn't know what he is doing."

There are exceptions when fasteners are rusted tight or stripped, but that falls under *something wrong w the vehicle*.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by Jeff Hail

Should be this system which is on both the 2500 and 3500's

That part looks like moog... here's the adjuster on the truck. Which I assume means total toe.... the top drag link adjuster is tack welded due to recall. To grind off the tack welds to undo a recall is not going to happen at any shop I've been to.

[Nostril Cheese]

Looking at how beefy that is, I'm inclined to think the steering linkage would have bent far more easily then the frame...

[asphaltgambler]

Also, to address the statement with SAI: steering axis inclination, which is a combination of camber, caster and steering arc ( turning) one of those angles would 'be out of spec' far enough that you couldn't adjust it out.

[Arizona_928]

So frame okay....
Alignment bad with recall and lack of adjustments. Time to upgrade....