Tube tire question:

[speeder]

I have two older motorcycles that use tube tires. One is my 1984 BMW that has alloy rims but designed for tubes, i.e. no safety bead on rim. The other is my 1970 Triumph w original spoke rims.

I am pretty safety conscience when it comes to tires, I’m about to change the tires on the BMW because they are 4 years old. I do not consider it urgent to change 2017 tires and I’m still riding it occasionally but soon. Tires are Michelin Pilot Activs, excellent tires for an older sport touring bike. I changed the tubes in 2017 and plan on reusing them.

I’m putting tires on the Triumph right now because of age, not tread wear. This bike sat still in a collection for years before I bought it and the tires are from 2007. There is no question that the tires should be changed but my question is about the tubes; how would they go bad inside tires in the dark, with no force of any kind on them, other than moderate air pressure?

I can anticipate the responses telling me to, “just change them,” don’t be a cheapskate, etc. I’m not cheap at all with needed maintenance and do more than most people in terms of changing brake fluid and hoses on vehicles, etc. I just also hate waste and cringe when I hear about people doing 3k mile oil changes on engines that are meant to go 10k intervals, etc. Every unnecessary oil or tire change is not only a waste of $$ but also environmentally screwed, new tires made or oil used for no reason, disposing of old tires or oil, that sort of thing. I’m a gear head but also an environmentalist, (at least I try to be), so these things weigh on me.

Most importantly, changing parts or fluids when not needed is a total waste that only benefits the seller of the unnecessary parts or fluids. It doesn’t benefit the machine. So convince me why I need to change the inner tubes, besides some abstract theory about them wearing out. What actually happens to them to change them in some material way and makes them unsafe after “X amount” of years or miles? They look like new, more or less. If I could see some change, I guarantee that I would not be asking. Old tires get changed before they need to be on my stuff, the Triumph came w the old tires and are getting replaced before any real riding. Thanks as always.

[speeder]

One of the old tubes:

[Scott Douglas]

Denis - I hear you on the environmentalist stuff. Took me a while to go to longer oil change intervals but I finally did.
All I can say here is, it's your hide if one fails and you go down.
Me?
I'd be changing them out and keeping the old tubes 'cause there's always something I can use a strip of rubber on and they cut up nicely with tin snips/scissors.

[id10t]

Change 'em and keep the old for spares. Or build one hell of a slingshot.

[Scott Douglas]

I used to ride a long time ago. I remember getting up one Saturday for a ride with my wife up to the Rock Store. Went down to the garage only to find the back tire on my 750F flat. I put a can of fix a flat in it and pumped it up. Tubeless tire. Had a great ride and the tire went a long time before being replaced.

[Esel Mann]

Have you contacted the tube manufacturer to find out? Could such information possibly be in a service manual?

Tubes & Accessories | Continental Motorcycle UK :

"We always recommend that when replacing tyres on tube-type wheels you should always fit new, correctly sized inner tubes."

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Esel Mann

Have you contacted the tube manufacturer to find out? Could such information possibly be in a service manual?

Tubes & Accessories | Continental Motorcycle UK :

"We always recommend that when replacing tyres on tube-type wheels you should always fit new, correctly sized inner tubes."

Thanks. I would definitely expect them to say this since they are in the business of selling tubes and as a CYA statement but it’s good advice, especially if you do not know the age of the old tube.

I’m definitely not changing the tubes on the BMW, (I installed them new in 2017, top quality tubes), and I’m replacing the front one on the Triumph but the rear was back ordered. I guess that the front is more important but a rear blow-out at speed would suck as well. I’m going to err on the side of caution but I’m like an annoying little kid...I always want to know WHY?

[speeder]

Originally Posted by id10t

Change 'em and keep the old for spares. Or build one hell of a slingshot.

Excellent idea. I hate to throw anything away that still has value.

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by speeder

Thanks. I would definitely expect them to say this since they are in the business of selling tubes and as a CYA statement but it’s good advice, especially if you do not know the age of the old tube.

I’m definitely not changing the tubes on the BMW, (I installed them new in 2017, top quality tubes), and I’m replacing the front one on the Triumph but the rear was back ordered. I guess that the front is more important but a rear blow-out at speed would suck as well. I’m going to err on the side of caution but I’m like an annoying little kid...I always want to know WHY?

I would bet the natural rubber still breaks down, though not as quickly as the rubber exposed to the sun. I know with tires they stay in better shape if used as it keeps the conditioners worked in. Unless they don't have conditioners like a race tire. At least that is what the tire guy told me.

[Zeke]

Old tubes have a variety of uses. Cut sections 3/4" to whatever and use as bungees, clamps on irregular assemblies and gluing (like a wooden chair). You can daisy chain the sections and have a 10 foot rubber band.

Sections make great jar openers. Also hose repair — all kinds. Just use long pieces cut lengthwise. Use loops or sections to hang things. Non scratch.

Little pieces of synthetic rubber have 100's of uses. Here in earthquake county having a non slip piece on the bottom of anything with feet or legs that can slide off on the floor can be helped to stay in place during a tremor.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by flipper35

I would bet the natural rubber still breaks down, though not as quickly as the rubber exposed to the sun. I know with tires they stay in better shape if used as it keeps the conditioners worked in. Unless they don't have conditioners like a race tire. At least that is what the tire guy told me.

Probably bikes aren't filled with nitrogen so I would imagine that ozone deterioration come into play at some point. I know there are a lot of chinese tubes being sold that may not be the best thing under your ass.

I bought some bicycle tires and tubes at Walmart once. Yeah, they lasted a long time.

[porsche930dude]

They dont seem to degrade when they are in a tire. Iv got a bike from the 70s the tires got super dry cracked in the last few years but i run low pressure and tore off a valve stem. The tube was still nice so i just glued on a new stem from a bicycle tube. then put screws in the bead to keep it from slipping. But when i take old tubes out and let them sit in the shed a few years they get cracked and come apart easily.

[Nostril Cheese]

With all honesty, if it says "Triumph"....

Go ahead and change them, just on principle.

[Jeff Hail]

Reminds me of "The Worlds Fastest Indian" where he was putting Kiwi shoe polish on the tires. " Makes the tyres look spick and span, good as new. Cheaper than new ones anyway."

[Dantilla]

With airplane tires, it is common to always use a new tube.
There can be small wrinkles in the tube against the tire that will eventually be a weak spot, that cannot be detected visually.

Remounting the same tube in a new tire will put this weakened area in a different position/configuration, and can lead to a failure.

The chances of an early failure may not be great, but they are far from zero.

[Chocaholic]

Probably not helpful but if going to the trouble of replacing tires, I would always replace the tube and spoke strip just for peace of mind if nothing else. It’s the cheapest part of the puzzle and the most critical in terms of your safety. Heck, the work involved alone would motivate me to install new guts “while in there”.

[javadog]

I tend to be a little on the conservative side when replacing things that might kill me if they fail.

I save money on crap that doesn’t matter.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by javadog

I tend to be a little on the conservative side when replacing things that might kill me if they fail.

I save money on crap that doesn’t matter.

I appreciate this and I have no hesitation buying new tires to replace ones that are timed-out but look perfect. I just can't wrap my head around how an innertube that sits inside a tire w 25 lbs. of air in it degrades. These tubes are really well made and the rubber feels like new, unlike a tire which hardens, dries out and gets greasy over time.

[Superman]

How expensive are these inner tubes?

Respectfully, I decide these matters as if tires are an important safety and performance part. That said, the tires on my 1978 Honda CB750 (spoke wheels) are a few years old and I'm not worried about them, but if/when I replace them, new inner tubes will be involved.

Similarly, when I replace a clutch disk, the release bearing also gets swapped out. In fact, with the 911, this procedure would likely also involve a new cable, release fork, guide tube, etc.

YMMV

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Superman

How expensive are these inner tubes?

Respectfully, I decide these matters as if tires are an important safety and performance part. That said, the tires on my 1978 Honda CB750 (spoke wheels) are a few years old and I'm not worried about them, but if/when I replace them, new inner tubes will be involved.

Similarly, when I replace a clutch disk, the release bearing also gets swapped out. In fact, with the 911, this procedure would likely also involve a new cable, release fork, guide tube, etc.

YMMV

How do you know that the new Chinese inner tube is not inferior to the one from 10 years ago that you are trashing? I want to know what happens to the current tube to degrade it. If it was so old that it seemed stretched, thin in spots, showed any kind of wear from being inflated inside a confined space, I'd never be asking.

I've had this converstaion here about other parts. I buy more auto parts than probably anyone here who does not own a retail shop and it's a subject that I'm close to obsessed with. It is nothing less than a barometer of globalism and the death, (or at least seismic change), of manufacturing and the Industrial Age.

There was a member here a while back who was doing some maintenance on an old American car, maybe a Cadillac. He was saying that he was going to replace the brake MC and a bunch of other mechanical parts that were working fine with new parts from Rock Auto or something. I asked him why and got a lot of blowback from various people. "Better safe than sorry, etc..."

Removing a good part from any older car and replacing it with Autozone parts is like taking your Snap-on or old Craftsman tools and throwing them in the trash, then restocking your toolbox at Harbor Freight. I have a 1999 Ford F-250 that was made in Canada, fer chrissakes. Canada. Replacement parts from the dealer in 2020 are made by Borat's sister in Kakhistan. The original parts that are still on the truck are phenomenal, for the most part. And that is since the beginning of the 21st century!

I'm not doubting that I could buy a decent new Continental tube right now that is made in one of their satellite factories in the third world. But the one in my tire from the early 2000s, (in a bike that has been sitting in a collection and not ridden), is almost certainly better. The tires, not so much. They are getting replaced.

I want to know what happened to the present one to degrade it.