US Marine silent drill platoon. Discipline.

[sammyg2]

[svandamme]

Well, not really discipline is it..it's practice on accuracy over and over and over again till the muscle memory results in this perfect drill.
I'm sure they were disciplined to begin with, wel, its the USMC, not the boy scouts.. but it's the training method and repetitive practice that pushed it onwards.


If it were a demonstration of discipline, there would have to be somebody barking orders at random. and the discipline would result in them all doing it exactly right.

[sammyg2]

Getting to that level of perfection takes hard work, total dedication, endless hours of practice with the goal of achieving the unachievable. If that isn't an example of discipline I don't know what is.

[Nostril Cheese]

impressive choreography. I've always wondered about the significance of rifle drills. Does it have something to do with fighting with pikes or spears way back when?

Is there some sort of noisemaker on the rifle that makes the "clacking" sound? I remember reading something about the Tomb Of The Unknown Soldier guards having metal plates on their shoes (another impressive bunch to see).

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Getting to that level of perfection takes hard work, total dedication, endless hours of practice with the goal of achieving the unachievable. If that isn't an example of discipline I don't know what is.

I get that, but ... The discipline is always there in the USMC, even those not in such demo teams.

To me, they are showing off something else. And I don't want that to sound bad.
But I have the same thing for those Tomb Guards.

At some point they draw attention away from the thing that matters.

People go see the tomb guards.. because of the show element. hell some even hope that some poor schmuck is going to do something stupid so the guard can bark off his warning to get back behind the rail or stfu and be quiet.


People should be going to the tomb... for The Tomb.

We have the same thing in Ypres.. people come to the Menin gate, each night (well used to until covid).. To see The Last Post.
And it irks me that over the years it has become a half hour spectacle.. people standing in line to come drop their wreath for their organization and their chance to say a poem under the gate during the Last Post.. And all the time people can't stay quiet during the ceremony.

When I was a kid, we went to the gate to see the last post.. it lasted 5 minutes, rain or shine, and half the time there wasn't anybody there, but us passers by who lived there.

At some point the ceremony, the show element.. takes away from it's own message
It becomes a bit of a circus.

You could teach non marines to do that silent rifle drill just as well.
And yeah, it would take a bunch of hard work and discipline.. But clearly that's not the only thing the USMC wants get across with such a team, is it?

[ZOO]

Hey! That's my hometown Fort . . .

That's where I saw the Silent Drill Team. It is a spectacle at Fort Henry, but Fort Henry is all about tourism and not about commemoration or remembrance at all. It was built for a war that never came against a nation that has become our biggest trading partner and ally.

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by ZOO

Hey! That's my hometown Fort . . .

That's where I saw the Silent Drill Team. It is a spectacle at Fort Henry, but Fort Henry is all about tourism and not about commemoration or remembrance at all. It was built for a war that never came against a nation that has become our biggest trading partner and ally.

I had the Barracks Banquet at Ft Henry. If you screwed up during the meal you had to do push-ups.

[id10t]

Originally Posted by svandamme

Well, not really discipline is it..it's practice on accuracy over and over and over again till the muscle memory results in this perfect drill.
I'm sure they were disciplined to begin with, wel, its the USMC, not the boy scouts.. but it's the training method and repetitive practice that pushed it onwards.


If it were a demonstration of discipline, there would have to be somebody barking orders at random. and the discipline would result in them all doing it exactly right.

I have a friend who did competitive marching band stuff in high school and college before joining the Marines (when Gulf War I started he enlisted). He said that the marching and drill in boot was intolerably sloppy to him, even at the end of boot when it shouldn't have been "new" to anyone anymore. And they didn't even have the excuse of trying to play an instrument at the same time.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by id10t

I have a friend who did competitive marching band stuff in high school and college before joining the Marines (when Gulf War I started he enlisted). He said that the marching and drill in boot was intolerably sloppy to him, even at the end of boot when it shouldn't have been "new" to anyone anymore. And they didn't even have the excuse of trying to play an instrument at the same time.

But that's probably not the same kind of drill

The point of drill is that you get a platoon of soldiers or boots, to do something on order.
basically the DI uses his voice as a Remote Control, and the boots should all respond at the same time at whatever order comes out of the DI..

It should not be something rehearsed.. the point is they should listen and blindly follow the commands issued.. Thats what drill was originally for.. To train em to stop thinking and just follow the commands.. in training, so that, on the battlefield, in theory you can order em to walk in file , over the top and over to the enemy.

The stated aim of drill as implemented in US military in1778 was to "enable a commander or noncommissioned officer to move his unit from one place to another in an orderly manner; to aid in disciplinary training by instilling habits of precision and response to the leader’s orders; and to provide for the development of all soldiers in the practice of commanding troops."



It wasn't technically about being rehearsed.. or being tight or sloppy.. it was about turning off the brain and following the orders without thinking... That's the discipline it was about.
Now obviously if all boots manage it right, there will be cohesion, and all the members of the unit will snap and turn at the right cadence.. but it's not rehearsed show, it's action>reaction.

Now silent drill , is a bit of a misnomer, since it's silent, there are no orders and clearly it's rehearsed to the max.
Silent drill is more like marching band stuff, then it has to do with actual military drill. It's a show routine

[flatbutt]

I see that Gunny didn't walk the gauntlet of tossed rifles.

[Norm K]

Originally Posted by svandamme

I get that, but ... The discipline is always there in the USMC, even those not in such demo teams.

Well, there is the Air Wing ...

_

[svandamme]

lol.. is it that bad ? I guess I forgot not all Marines are General Infantry

[DonDavis]

Originally Posted by svandamme

Well, not really discipline is it..it's practice on accuracy over and over and over again till the muscle memory results in this perfect drill.
...snip...

I read all your reasoning, and I hear where you're coming from, but I wholeheartedly disagree.

There were a few Recruits in my Navy Basic Training that had minimal Military Bearing.

They were the ones that screwed up on the most simple stuff, they had very poor discipline.

Couldn't follow direction or correction.

We had to learn some very, very rudimentary drill with M-14s.

The sharper more disciplined guys had no problem, the others were just awful.

I can still hear both my DIs walking around belting out corrections.

[flatbutt]

Given that the majority of them are just Lance Corporals and it takes a year and half(?) to get to that rank I'd say discipline definitely plays a big part in getting this honor.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by DonDavis

I read all your reasoning, and I hear where you're coming from, but I wholeheartedly disagree.

There were a few Recruits in my Navy Basic Training that had minimal Military Bearing.

They were the ones that screwed up on the most simple stuff, they had very poor discipline.

Couldn't follow direction or correction.

We had to learn some very, very rudimentary drill with M-14s.

The sharper more disciplined guys had no problem, the others were just awful.

I can still hear both my DIs walking around belting out corrections.

Not sure how much difference there is between basic Navy and USMC, but I would reckon there is quite some difference? considering USMC basic has different outcome (every marine a rifleman ) then basic navy (people who run ships).. ?

Again not beeing dismissive, but people who do USMC bootcamp tend to have some interest in getting into a fight
whereas most people that go into basic Navy, thend to have some interest in some kind of career where they learn skills and abilities gear towards making "stuff" work

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not entirely the same kind of target audience.

[gregpark]

We dropped our son off at Pendleton for Marine boot camp 20 something years ago and there were a bunch of other long haired scraggly kids going in at the same time. No parental contact allowed for weeks. They break them down and build them back into hardened proud killing machines. 3 months later on graduation day I just couldn't believe they were the same kids. Actually, they weren't. They were men. Polite,
confident and respectful men. A truly Unbelievable transformation. The marching drills they did on the hot tarmac that day made parents cry, made the hairs on my arms stand up. So disciplined, so impressive. The Marines served him well. In his case it was the best decision he could made. He was offered numerous jobs after serving honorably because a lot of companies know that these guys will make the best employees, and they're right.

[carambola]

Mechanical Music

[Bugsinrugs]

I enjoyed that. Does anyone know what the OPPS moment was?

[DonDavis]

The Marine missed when the rifle was tossed back after inspection. The inspector went between ranks to get it, then returned to reattempt. Rifle stock was cracked and after a quick spin, it came apart, but the strap kept the mess together. Broken rifle returned. That’s all I could find.

Originally Posted by svandamme

Not sure how much difference there is between basic Navy and USMC, but I would reckon there is quite some difference?

Every branch has their own goals. My Basic was very easy for me, I was one of those guys that was physically ready for anything and looking forward to challenges. Turned out to be more of a mental game than anything else.

And your point about career stuff, I selected Navy to get into weapons electronics. My gear did the job from dozens to hundreds of miles away, while sitting in an air conditioned ballistic/missle control room. I’d never see the whites of the enemy’s eyes.

[Superman]

That is so incredibly cool. i cried a little.

Honestly, I think there should be mandatory conscription. Seriously.