Both my children got drilled with my version of Smith.

The one inviolate is and was spacing. Having a good scan, up and in, mirrors, etc, are tools, spacing is the tool chest.

Neither have had issues.

Well, that's one way to get her attention! SmileWavy

"I typically know that a car ahead is about to change lane before the driver ahead has made his decision, simply because I can tell he's moving around while he looks, and based on his relative speed and position on the traffic around him."

Yeah, this is a habit I have developed too. I like reading traffic around me so there are no surprises.
The idea of being aware of what is going on at least 15 seconds ahead of you is a minimum, as noted. That's a quarter mile at most road speeds, more on a limited access. You would almost always be aware of what's going on beyond that parameter.

Just as I don't like surprises on the road, I don't like surprising other drivers. I have for a long time felt if I make someone apply their brakes in a rush, I have somehow messed up.

Our driver training instructor in high school worked us on Defensive Driving/Smith system as something to which we should aspire. Some of us (who had more behind the wheel time outside the course go it, others not so much.
I also remember researching the UK police driver training about forty years ago. I found it helps as well as The Pace for motorcyclists.
Drive to arrive.

Best
Les

I could not agree more. Excellent. Flow.

Excellent conversation and great talking points.

All of the driving techniques mentioned here are just fine. But we are an extremely tiny slice of what’s out there. General public would be lost on this.
Ask me how I know.

It never surprises me when someone challenges the validity of the System.

Like I prefaced earlier, much too complex to adequately cover in a thread.

Case in point, when I said “scan a mirror”, it’s to prevent the driver from getting into a habit of only checking the rear view. I want all mirrors checked, but with intention, not habit.

This post seems the perfect segue into a post about the correct adjustment of the side mirrors. For many, many years, I had mine set incorrectly, which is probably how most folks set them. Then someone on the board posted something about an alternative setting that is much, much better.

https://www.wikihow.com/Set-Rear%E2%80%90View-Mirrors-to-Eliminate-Blind-Spots
https://i0.wp.com/apmechanics.uk/wp-...6/08/B5Qmw.png

I don't rely on mirror position or anything.
I move my head around while looking in the mirror when I plan on changing lanes and or turn in a road.
I will also look over my shoulder left and right as well as look in the mirror. (one reason I prefer 2 door cars, they have no B pillar or the B pillar is further behind.

1 Blind spots in the mirror : you can't fully eliminate em if you don't move your head around
2 Modern cars have such big A pillars that you can have a small car, cyclist hidden behind the left A pillar , it if he's at the right speed vs your speed while approaching the intersection..

Moving your head around avoids all that, because your mirror view will move around massively.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1619633287.jpg

In this country I think you have to look over your shoulder (as well as using the mirrors) before you change lanes. I know for a fact it's the law to do so before you pull away from the curb.

I think I can rotate my head almost 360 degres after learning how to drive in NYC in a 77 VW Rabbit 4 Speed. Zero contact over the years and avoided damage spotting potholes and missing pavement ahead of time.

Need to be more cautious now since texting while driving became the norm.

I prefer to keep the amount of bobbing and weaving that I have to do to see to a minimum. With the previously posted adjustment of mirrors, I can pass a car in the lane to either side of me and at one point, I'll see the back of the car in the rear view and the front of the car in the side view. By the time back of the car is in the side view, the front is in my peripheral view. It would be REALLY hard to put something in the usual over the shoulder blindspot.

It may not completely eliminate the need to look around, but it's still a huge improvement over the more common way to adjust the mirrors where they mostly overlap. I'd rather see 135º behind me with my mirrors than just 90º. That's the sort of impact that the alternative adjustment has.

The mirrors are a tool and they are there. I'd like to make the best use of them.

Please understand I do not intend any slight towards you. I have no doubt your driving is way above average.
Anything I say about it is purely based on your comments.

3-5 seconds is way too often to check, as you say, EVERY mirror.
I had to time my drivers "mirror check" timing and 3-5 seconds is over the top unnecessary.
Folks have a seriously hard time with 10 seconds. If you are actually checking EVERY mirror that often, you're taking your eyes off the road for way too long.
And you openly admit to speeding every day, all the time. I hope that's a bit of hyperbole. It's just unsafe and an easy decision to correct.

But again, we're trying to defend our opinions on a stupid InnerWebs forum.
I'm sure your driving is just fine.

For the record, I've had plenty of drivers defend their technique much the same way you do.
You're a grown ass man, drive any way you choose. Just don't pretend your way is perfect. And I never implied my way, or the Smith way is perfect either.
It's just a better way for nearly all drivers regardless of their skill level.

You're clearly trying to poke holes in it's value.

I think that was LeeH. He's a damn fine driver. That's exactly how my mirrors have been set for at least 15 years.

And I caution those that attempt that method because it is different from what they're used to. Takes a bit of getting used to.
And I'll never go back to the old way.

I'm not , I'm sure it has value for people who aren't great drivers to begin with.
Folks who aren't really all that interested in driving like some folks on a sportscar forum would be.. Folks who think a car is something that gets you from A to B.

But they are interested in safety, so they look for extra skills that way.. They can benefit from this system , because they don't have any inclination to figure things out all by themselves. That's what the system will help em with.


My point is simply that the system doesn't offer anything you can't find elsewhere if you really are a driver that enjoys and really engages in "driving". Who has the common sense and is committed to driving properly.

I don't know you, and until we visit in person and have a meal together, I essentially never will. So I can't tell if you're messing with me or maybe you're being purposefully obtuse. But you are precisely attempting to discredit the value of Smith System. You have never attending any of it's classes or ride-alongs, yet you say it "doesn't offer..."

You're wrong.

This training is tailor made for higher skilled drivers that want to be better. Your assessment/opinion is just plain incorrect.

I have no clue what your occupation is, but let's go with "home window installation expert". I've never even assisted with a window installation so I cannot speak about that intelligently. Just apply your words dismissing the training as if it were mine about your very well seasoned skills.

But you are entitled to your opinion, even when it's 100% incorrect.

Now, I'm guessing you'll craft some lengthy response, and I welcome any discussion, but until you become a Certified Smith Instructor, your opinions on it will fall short of anything close to valid.

Feel free to keep speeding excessively/irresponsibly, ignoring the importance of mirror positioning, and spinning your head every 3 seconds. I'm sure it serves you well...until it doesn't.

SmileWavy

Island911 system of driving: Drive. Don't be a rider behind the wheel.

I don't spin my head around ever 3 secs..and I never said I don't setup my mirrors..
I just said I don't rely on mirrors only for critical changes of my cars direction

You seem very much committed to your "doctrine".. because that's what a driving system is in this context.

I am more in line with what General Mattis said about doctrine.. feel free to Google that.

Your words, while I made the quote shorter, I did not change any words.
Just do the math using your technique based on a vehicle with 3 mirrors for a 45 second time-frame.

Mirror positioning is a huge benefit.

My dedication to a "dreaded doctrine" is not in question. It's fairly obvious.
Your uneducated opinion is the topic.
You are simply not qualified to make those claims.

Or, produce your own equivalent Drive Trainer documentation.

Why would I swing my head around to look in mirrors. You are confused.. I just swing my eyes around for that.
I even said in my previous that I felt mirrors should be scanned more often, so you selectively pruned my comments to make it sound I don't use mirrors at all.. and instead swing my head around every 3 secs like some wild man.


To swing my head around means looking over my shoulder, Which i don't do every 3 secs
I WILL swing my head around prior to making lane changes and turns, to eliminate all possibility of a blind zone, which you cannot always fully eliminate with mirror positioning. Impossible in modern cars.

Fact and you know it, but you rather piss on me because You are making it dogmatic.
Dogma : when I comment on the thing presented (by you and others) by definition I'm wrong and not capable to comment on it, because by your statement I'm not trained so I can't or shouldn't comment on it

Well that's convenient.

EDIT, lest i forget.. your statement that i should produce my own equivalent Drive Trainer documentation is a joke, for I am not a driver trainer, don't have any ambition to become one, and you don't have to be a driver trainer to discuss driving technique. again, you're basically claiming that any kind of driver safety is the monopoly of people who are in the business of the system or systems like it : dogma

It's like stating people shouldn't discuss breathing because they aren't a certified yoga teacher or an MD, just as nonsensical.

UPS trains all their drivers using this method. They make the drivers recite it from memory periodically. I find it very helpful.