How to Hide an Empire

sc_rufctr · 05-04-2021, 02:22 AM

This is a long video but very interesting and I find this stuff fascinating.
- With the best of intentions things often don't go to plan but we can always learn from them.
Fair warning: There are some disturbing facts described in this speech.

Daniel Immerwahr: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Immerwahr

(FYI: Most of the video is about the US and WW2 however there are some comments about modern politics towards the end)

Nostril Cheese · 03:05 AM

Cool link. Thanks.

Mi Nana es de Puerto Rico.

Seahawk · 05-04-2021, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

Fair warning: There are some disturbing facts described in this speech.

I watched the whole thing. There are also many disturbing "opinions" in this speech that are simply not fact based, rather how he would have preferred the US fight a multi-front war.

That said, I enjoyed the video, especially the grade school class references.

pwd72s · 05-04-2021, 08:40 AM

Will come back when I have the hour. Sounds interesting...

stomachmonkey · 05-04-2021, 09:47 AM

You hide it in orbit around the forest moon of Endor

monoflo · 05-04-2021, 11:04 AM

Sounds like more of reading history through 21st century eyes and judging by todays "norms".

The fleet was moved to Pearl from San Diego in response to the perceived Japanese threat - Wake and Midway defenses were being augmented due to said threat. Oil and Steel exports were curtailed in response to said threat - in a step that contributed to the cause of the Japanese attack. The US was coming out of a rather isolation oriented period but already re arming and supplying England.
Was or is the US without sin in the many aspect of WW2 --of course not --but to fully understand or attempt to understand history - it must be viewed through the looking glass of the era as well.

oldE · 05-04-2021, 11:21 AM

No surprises there, but then I took courses on imperialism and major military actions almost 50 years ago.
Filipinos were allowed to serve in the US Navy.. as mess men and stewards. They were referred to by MacArthur as ,"our little brown brothers"
In the late 1800s, a popular ditty with the troops serving in the Philippines went to the tune of "Tramp Tramp We Go A'marching"

Dam dam dam the Filipino
Pock marked khakiac ladrone
Underneath the starry flag
Civilize him with a Craig
And return us to our own beloved home.

I was surprised he left Cuba off the discussion.

Re the bases built around the world, few folks know the of American occupation of Iceland from the 1940s to the end of the cold war. On the other hand, Keflavik has made a wonderful civilian airport since the US Airforce pulled out. In Tom Clancey's "Red Storm Rising", part of the story is concerned with the Soviets neutralizing the base and endangering the re-supply mission to Europe.
I would be willing to bet more than a few of the guys here have passed through Subic Bay at one time or another.

Best
Les

Seahawk · 05-04-2021, 11:38 AM

Again, I liked the video and the Professor.

However, and I have spent a lot of time on small ships all over the Pacific, there was no way we could have helped the Philippines early in the the war.

We got smoked early and spent years catching up. Logistics rule in that part of the world and we had none.

oldE · 05-04-2021, 11:53 AM

I thought the first question was asking about the response of colonials to the call to war.
Instead his answer spoke to US troops reaction to serving in colonys and new bases after the war ended.
Did I misinterpret the question?

Best
Les

sc_rufctr · 05-04-2021, 11:59 AM

Thanks for chiming in Mr Hawk... And I agree the situation called for a hard decision.

MacArthur's return to the Philippines was one of the defining moments of WW2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_MacArthur#Philippines_Campaign_(1944–45)

Seahawk · 05-04-2021, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldE

Filipinos were allowed to serve in the US Navy.. as mess men and stewards.

Much more than that.

I love the Philippines...I have spent many months there, went to JAST, flown all over the Archipelago, etc.

The absolute finest people on Earth.

MacArthur and Ike knew each other well, btw. It was just impossible to help. BTW, we destroyed European cities to save soldiers lives. Manila was not unusual.

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2015/09/09/eisenhower-and-macarthur-an-in-depth-comparison/

Again, very good video, an important part of any discussion.

Seahawk · 05-04-2021, 02:35 PM

We got there when we could.

The below are pictures my wife's mothers 2nd husband took. He was at the the University of Penn when the Japanese attacked...he flunked out of flight school and then was a enlisted navigator on PT Boats.

A great human.

The point is we had nothing to counter the wave initially. It had nothing to do with Filipinos.

Imagine, 19 years old, get bounced from Great Lakes Navy flight training and then get shipped to the South Pacific for two, nearly three years. I know the Professor was trying to make a point, but so were the men and women that went and fought.

Blame the Japanese for the love of god.

Rife, btw, loved driving around the farm with Jack.

Nostril Cheese · 05-04-2021, 02:49 PM

Sister is married to a Filipino. You are correct. Damn good people.

pwd72s · 05-04-2021, 05:44 PM

Finally watched it.

Seemed to be making a case for Puerto Rico statehood. Ahhh, but he also said it should be what the people of the area want. Puerto Rico had a vote on that very issue. The people there voted no...by quite a large margin. Didn't want to pay income taxes to Washington.

Also, our Seahawk was spot on...we simply didn't have the resources to defend the Philippines. It wasn't a "let 'em die" attitude on the President's part.

Obviously not a conservative professor...I'd like to hear Victor David Hanson's viewpoint as well.