Originally Posted by sammyg2 (Post 11391620)

Comparing today's situations to that of the people who suffered during the great depression or dustbowl is a bit too much, don't you think?
I toned that down ... a lot. Much less harsh.



Question: how many of you have done something to personally help the needy?
Besides posting about it I mean.
Deeds, not words.

We cannot escape human nature. It is here to stay, regardless of how much one might want to pretend.
Things like greed and selfishness are unavoidable, so the system of capitalism uses them to benefit ALL people. Yes, the rising tide raises all ships.
All people benefit from a higher standard of living. ​

Capitalism is flawed but not nearly as much as other economic ideologies, where the GUBMINT has the power and control takes care of the GUBMINT (ruling elite) to the detriment of the peons.


The majority of homeless are living on the streets for a reason. Their poor life choices and their self-destructive behavior have put them on the streets. They are victims of themselves and you can't take "them" out of the equation.
It's THEIR fault and all the good feelings and BS good intentions won't change a thing except to drag others down with them. If anything, the well-intentioned foolishness of bleeding hearts has contributed to the problem.
Hey, let's make it profitable to be a ****-up and see if we get more ****-ups or less!
Stop paying people to be ****-ups, make it downright unpleasant and hard to be a homeless druggy and we will have less people living on the streets.
Make it easier on them, make all sorts of accommodations for them, let them do whatever the heck they want without repercussions, let them take over the streets or parks, make drugs more legal, reduce or eliminate criminal punishments, and we'll have hundreds of thousands of people living on the streets. JUST LIKE WE HAVE NOW!!!!!!!!!

Hey, maybe if we keep doing what makes it worse, it'll somehow get better!

So to you who are are incensed by these truths, a challenge: prove me wrong.
Go help a homeless person.
Face to face, pick them up and help them. Give them a place to stay indoors, feed them, clothe them, teach them how to get their act together.
Then let us all know how that works out. Let us all know how much that costs you and how jaded and disillusioned you become after the experience.


I still remember a time when I thought I could "fix" things.
​I tried to help people get back on their feet, get off the drugs, get a job, a place to stay, to get them meaning in their lives. To teach them what it took to be successful, to tech them wat good looks like.
Big mistake.
My good intentions were repaid by theft, lies, deceit, and damage to my family and friendships.

Deep down, addicts don't really want help. They don't want to get off the streets, they don't want a home, they want DRUGS. That's all they care about.
And then they want more drugs.
Go ahead, try to change that.
Prove me wrong.

Originally Posted by flatbutt (Post 11391712)

True charity is anonymous.

Originally Posted by jyl (Post 11391735)

In Portland, this describes about a third of the homeless, and many of those are criminals as well (street drug addiction and crime go together). Another third are mentally ill, in some cases their homelessness is due to the mental illness and in other cases their mental illness is caused by the homelessness. And another third are low-skill, low-functioning, and low-luck but basically "normal" people, some of them are actually working but still have to live out of their cars. These are, of course, very rough numbers.

The problem locally is that our politicians and the "homeless-industrial-complex" refuse to recognize that we have different types of homeless who need to be handled differently. Some need to be confined in drug treatment and/or prison, others need to be institutionalized in mental health facilities, and others need financial, housing and job help. Honestly, a lot of people are profiting from things being as bad as they are.

A depressing number of housed people are teetering on the edge of homelessness. I've mentioned our friend, the older widow whose greatest fear is becoming homeless at 76 y/o. The clerk at one of the convenience stores I go to was living in his car for years while working full time. Many of the guys who pick up trash in the business district where I work were homeless before they got the job. These folks, if they do end up on the street, won't be noticeable because they'll do their best to keep up appearances, move their car from place to place, find places to wash and do laundry, and try to find their way back among the housed.

In many way, the US is a competitive, demanding, unforgiving place to live. That's great for us on this forum - most of you are among the most successful, skilled, tenacious people in America and thrive in a Darwinian world. Shouldn't mean we can't recognize that some people - not most people, a modest percentage, but still a large absolute number - are slipping and falling.

Originally Posted by wdfifteen (Post 11391872)

He didn’t ask about charity, he asked if anyone had helped the needy.

Originally Posted by Tobra (Post 11391942)

Are you familiar with what the word "charity" means?

Originally Posted by jyl (Post 11391320)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1626269073.jpg

Above is 2019 distribution of US household income. https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R44705.pdf Does not include in-kind assistance (food stamps, etc) or capital gains.

About 17% of US households have HH income < $25K/yr ($2K/mo).

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1626269338.jpg

Above is how income distribution has changed over the past 50+ years. Numbers are in 2019 dollars (i.e. inflation adjusted).

Bottom two-fifths of households have seen almost no income growth in 50 years, top one-fifth has seen almost all of the household income growth.

Originally Posted by Tobra (Post 11391972)

char•i•ty chăr′ĭ-tē►
n. Provision of help or relief to the poor; almsgiving.
n. Something given to help the needy; alms.
n. An institution, organization, or fund established to help the needy.

Originally Posted by wdfifteen (Post 11392201)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1626334189.jpg

Just this week I have a guy who is working for me who can't work a regular job due to medical issues. He needed an income and was able to work at inconsistent hours. I need help around here but have no need for a 9 to 5, 5 days a week employee, so we work it out. He can't find this situation anywhere else, but the job is a transaction, not charity.

The guy was definitely in need. I helped him, but I don't look at it as charity because he's paying me back.
Bottom line I got to help someone who needed help and he got to get his truck fixed while maintaining his self esteem by not being a charity case. Win win.

Originally Posted by Purrybonker (Post 11391221)

Well, I have read Atlas Shrugged.

I recall that she envisions a world where "virtuous" hard working people feel themselves trapped in a dystopian world of lazy ****heads.

The characters and themes are basically as complex as good guys and bad guys on the Batman TV series.

Anyway, the "good guys" become so frustrated that they chose, surreptitiously, to live in a (ironically - did you notice?) communistic society of elites who, collectively live like plebes gardening and so on, swapping meagre elements of production.

They all live happily ever after swapping tomatoes and leather gloves.

Ayn Rand makes a model of libertarian life? Be a hermit and happy with a great garden knowing that no lazy dip**** is taking advantage of your hard work?

And somehow no element of competition exists amongst these libertarian elites?

They are quite content to exchange their intellectual gifts and production with each other with no interest in competitive advantage?

Dream on Ayn Rand. Dream on a bit less Karl Marx and John Maynard Keynes.

Originally Posted by Purrybonker (Post 11391199)

John Maynard Keynes - basically the father of capitalist economic thinking.

Originally Posted by wdfifteen (Post 11391237)

Steinbeck is one of my favorite authors. The way he develops characters, it’s like you know the people personally.

Originally Posted by sammyg2 (Post 11391620)

Comparing today's situations to that of the people who suffered during the great depression or dustbowl is a bit too much, don't you think?
I toned that down ... a lot. Much less harsh.



Question: how many of you have done something to personally help the needy?
Besides posting about it I mean.
Deeds, not words.

We cannot escape human nature. It is here to stay, regardless of how much one might want to pretend.
Things like greed and selfishness are unavoidable, so the system of capitalism uses them to benefit ALL people. Yes, the rising tide raises all ships.
All people benefit from a higher standard of living. ​

Capitalism is flawed but not nearly as much as other economic ideologies, where the GUBMINT has the power and control takes care of the GUBMINT (ruling elite) to the detriment of the peons.


The majority of homeless are living on the streets for a reason. Their poor life choices and their self-destructive behavior have put them on the streets. They are victims of themselves and you can't take "them" out of the equation.
It's THEIR fault and all the good feelings and BS good intentions won't change a thing except to drag others down with them. If anything, the well-intentioned foolishness of bleeding hearts has contributed to the problem.
Hey, let's make it profitable to be a ****-up and see if we get more ****-ups or less!
Stop paying people to be ****-ups, make it downright unpleasant and hard to be a homeless druggy and we will have less people living on the streets.
Make it easier on them, make all sorts of accommodations for them, let them do whatever the heck they want without repercussions, let them take over the streets or parks, make drugs more legal, reduce or eliminate criminal punishments, and we'll have hundreds of thousands of people living on the streets. JUST LIKE WE HAVE NOW!!!!!!!!!

Hey, maybe if we keep doing what makes it worse, it'll somehow get better!

So to you who are are incensed by these truths, a challenge: prove me wrong.
Go help a homeless person.
Face to face, pick them up and help them. Give them a place to stay indoors, feed them, clothe them, teach them how to get their act together.
Then let us all know how that works out. Let us all know how much that costs you and how jaded and disillusioned you become after the experience.


I still remember a time when I thought I could "fix" things.
​I tried to help people get back on their feet, get off the drugs, get a job, a place to stay, to get them meaning in their lives. To teach them what it took to be successful, to tech them wat good looks like.
Big mistake.
My good intentions were repaid by theft, lies, deceit, and damage to my family and friendships.

Deep down, addicts don't really want help. They don't want to get off the streets, they don't want a home, they want DRUGS. That's all they care about.
And then they want more drugs.
Go ahead, try to change that.
Prove me wrong.

Originally Posted by herr_oberst (Post 11392902)

The problem I have with using Steinbeck as an allegory to today's seeming dystopia, is that I never felt a sense of dread when reading any of his novels. Quite the opposite. Even when he paints a landscape as seemingly dreary as the ones in Tortilla Flats or The Pearl, there is hope in the narrative.
ALWAYS hope in the narrative.

I feel a more suitable narrator of today's world would be more of a Chuck Palahniuk, George Orwell or even Paul Theroux with his novel The O Zone...

Maybe Nevil Shute if you really think we are closing shop as a civilization.

Not Steinbeck. Not to me anyway.