Stockholm

[DWBOX2000]

Just watching a episode of Rick Steve’s Europe featuring Stockholm, Sweden. I guess they get 5 weeks vacation from day one, 16 weeks of maturity leave, free health and education. They pay a lot in tax. Not sure the tax, just said tax. My question is, can a regular Joe have all the toys a middle class person can have here in The U.S. such as a boat or a weekend car? Curious if they give up individuality for security? Seems like you would have a small group of wealthy and everyone else. Thanks.

[dw1]

I was never a resident of Sweden, but my company is headquartered there and I spent a lot of time working with the folks in Sweden, and spending time there and in Germany.

Like living in any major city, Stockholm is relatively expensive, but based on my observations & discussions with residents a "regular Joe" can have a good life outside of the expensive parts of the city. Better yet, outside of the city itself. Notably, boats as "toys"are a big thing (and relatively common) in some parts of Sweden. It appears from my observations that Sweden is not as "car culture" oriented as the US (or Germany).

It appears that the European taxes that are emphasized by media in the US are overstated. We had some folks residing in the US (Bergen County, NJ) for several years, and they pointed out that when they combined local, state and federal taxes & fees they were paying in the US, they were actually paying more here than in Europe for a similar lifestyle. One point they made was that there were not so many different entities with their hands out back home. Admittedly, NJ's property taxes are notoriously expensive, but it did make for an interesting comparison.

[Bill Douglas]

But think all the beautiful, beautiful, girls there. That makes the tax worthwhile.

[svandamme]

most swedes have a country vacation house out in the boonies.
I'm pretty sure their living standards , on average are well above anybody elses average in Europe or North america or Asia. except for perhaps Norway where they actually get paid by the government instead of pay taxes (oil income is state owned and pays dividend) and obvious exceptions like Monaco , Lichtenstein and some other tax haven city states

the only thing they don't have.. is sun in winter.


https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/standard-of-living-by-country

CSV
JSON
Country
Quality of Life Rank
Quality of Life Index
Safety Index
Healthcare Index
Pollution Index
Climate Index
Denmark 1 192.53 73.91 80.17 21.52 81.8
Switzerland 2 190.92 78.42 73.1 21.89 80.05
Finland 3 186.4 74.47 75.96 11.79 59.21
Australia 4 185.03 58.33 77.81 23.22 94.2
Netherlands 5 184.18 72.85 78.68 26.11 87.53
Austria 6 181.68 75.57 78.56 21.65 78.22
Iceland 7 180.74 76.3 65.61 16.2 68.81
New Zealand 8 178.22 57.81 73.82 23.52 95.46
Germany 9 177.25 64.86 73.35 29.28 83.13
Estonia 10 175.99 76.44 72.52 19.02 64.28
Norway 11 174.55 65.38 74.51 20.14 71.37
Oman 12 173.08
Sweden 13 172.18 52.57 69.15 19.05 73.97
Slovenia 14 169.81 79.05 65.16 23.53 77.56
United States 15 169.78 52.3 69.2 38.17 76.69
Spain 16 167.05 67.67 78.69 40.37 93.98
Japan 17 163.23 78.33 80.23 39.34 84.79
Portugal 18 162.46 70.17 71.88 30.38 97.72
United Kingdom 19 161.2 55.46 74.88 40.62 87.77
Lithuania 20 159.77 66.12 70.51 27.91 69.86
Canada 21 158.88 59.36 71.77 27.97 52.69
Qatar 22 156.9 88.1 73.03 60.41 36.03
Croatia 23 156.77 75.33 63.75 30.07 89.89
United Arab Emirates 24 155.41 84.55 67.92 50.66 45.23
Czech Republic 25 154.7 74.6 75.18 39.46 77.13
France 26 150.68 52.63 80.68 43.64 89.78
Ireland 27 150.16 54.32 52.27 34.29 89.13
Slovakia 28 149.93 70.19 60.23 39.99 78.13
Belgium 29 149.75 54.71 74.8 53.66 86.03
Saudi Arabia 30 148.94 73.32 60.42 64.34 45.98
Latvia 31 148.68 62.57 62.14 34.07 74.7
Israel 32 146.89 69.56 73.4 57.48 93.79
Cyprus 33 146.86 68.43 52.53 55.11

[beepbeep]

OK, I'll bite as I actually work in Stockholm.

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

I guess they get 5 weeks vacation from day one

Many companies have 6 weeks. But 5 weeks is guaranteed by law. I have 6 weeks. Teachers have more. So do government employees.

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

16 weeks of maturity leave, free health and education.

I suppose you mean "maternity"? It is not 16 weeks, it is 480 days maximum. But amount of money varies depending on how much you earn, how long you stay at home etc. It is a sliding scale. And yes, a dad can stay at home as well. A chunk of paid leave is "earmarked" per parent and cannot be transferred .
More info: https://sweden.se/life/society/work-life-balance

Parents in Sweden are entitled to 480 days of paid parental leave when a child is born or adopted. Each parent – should they be two – is entitled to 240 of those days. If the child is born in 2016 or later, each parent has 90 days reserved exclusively for him/her. Should he/she decide not to take these, they can’t be transferred to the partner. A single parent is entitled to a full 480 days.

Personally, I stayed at home with our third child for half a year with 90% of full pay (my company has a policy to "fill up" maternity leave on the top of what you get from state). I ended up having more money than ever as I did not have time to spend it (no lunches, commuting etc.) Re: health. You pay some token amount when going to doctor...like 10 bucks. But if it amounts to more than like, 200 bucks a year the rest is free. Same with medicine.

Child care is free. So is education.

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

They pay a lot in tax. Not sure the tax, just said tax. My question is, can a regular Joe have all the toys a middle class person can have here in The U.S. such as a boat or a weekend car? Curious if they give up individuality for security? Seems like you would have a small group of wealthy and everyone else. Thanks.

Boats and weekend cars are quite common. I do not understand the question of lost "individuality" ? I need to ask local council to enlarge my house, as it is in planned area. I cannot drive lifted truck with coal tune, as it will fail MOT. And smoking pot is still not legal.

Sweden is ranked as No.1 in the world for "personal freedom", whatever it means.

[beepbeep]

P.S.

I just watched Rick Steves Stockholm episode and found it very bland and offering little information. Just a couple of tourist traps around Stockholm.

Here is more condensed video with factual info:

[sc_rufctr]

Brrr

[DWBOX2000]

Thanks everyone. I guess I’ll do some further reading. With the additional luxuries of boats, cars, etc, it sparks my interest of where the money comes from to support all this. Population, educated workforce, other?
Thanks again. Interesting stuff.

[beepbeep]

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

With the additional luxuries of boats, cars, etc, it sparks my interest of where the money comes from to support all this. Population, educated workforce, other?
Thanks again. Interesting stuff.

IKEA, Spotify Atlas Copco, H&M, SAAB (aerospace), Assa Abloy, Volvo, Astra Zeneca, SSAB, Sandvik, Ericsson, Electrolux, SKF, Nordea, Hasselblad, Husqvarna, Scania, ABB to name a few...
Then a whole load of Biotech companies that do not have recognizable trademarks yet draw loads of money. Then software industry.

[DWBOX2000]

Got it. So why do these companies stay if they are spending a ton to support these social services?. I’m assuming some of these are publicly traded. Is it in the shareholders best interest to be there?
Is the workforce jut not replaceable? Is there more loyalty to country that the companies don’t leave? Are executive salaries more reasonable? Cost of living cheap and if so, how come? Just seems too good. Not saying it’s a bad thing, just trying to grasp how they can pull it off. Definitely on my list of places to visit, just beautiful.

[berettafan]

I suspect those lovely benefits are given to people who work and contribute. Not so much to people who refuse to get off their ass.

[beepbeep]

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

Got it. So why do these companies stay if they are spending a ton to support these social services?. I’m assuming some of these are publicly traded. Is it in the shareholders best interest to be there?

I assume for the same reason IT companies gather around in California and not Alabama despite being expensive = people who know how do do stuff do not want to move to appease shareholders.

Many of companies do have HQ in other countries for tax reasons. IKEA for example, is registered as non-pofit ORG in Netherlands. Ericsson HQ is in London (I believe). Volvo is owned by Chinese company etc. But people who build stuff still live in Sweden and employer is still obliged to pay their salary and social benefits in Sweden, regardless where corporate tax is collected.

Also, government has significant ownership of some of large companies and can exert pressure should some pump-and-dump shareholders try to make a quick buck.

[beepbeep]

Originally Posted by berettafan

I suspect those lovely benefits are given to people who work and contribute. Not so much to people who refuse to get off their ass.

Not really. You can basically sit on your ass and collect benefits anyway. But not all benefits. But you will not die of hunger or be homeless (unless mentally ill, which is another problem).

[IROC]

Originally Posted by beepbeep

IKEA, Spotify Atlas Copco, H&M, SAAB (aerospace), Assa Abloy, Volvo, Astra Zeneca, SSAB, Sandvik, Ericsson, Electrolux, SKF, Nordea, Hasselblad, Husqvarna, Scania, ABB to name a few...
Then a whole load of Biotech companies that do not have recognizable trademarks yet draw loads of money. Then software industry.

And...the European Spallation Source. That's why I go over there on occasion.

I ran into a guy tending bar in Malmö who was an American. I asked him how he ended up tending bar in Sweden and he said his mom is Swedish so he was over there going to university for free.

I interact with a number of people there (thru ESS) and I've rarely heard anyone complain about living/working in Sweden.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by beepbeep

Not really. You can basically sit on your ass and collect benefits anyway. But not all benefits. But you will not die of hunger or be homeless (unless mentally ill, which is another problem).

This is basically the same as Australia but it's a lot tougher to get benefits if you're not willing to work or get retrained. Faking an illness to get benefits in Aus is common.

The only concern I have about Sweden is the weather. I live about 5 minutes from the beach (by foot) and I surf most days throughout the year. Our Winters are a joke compared to Northern Europe. It rarely gets anywhere near 0 degrees Celsius.

[beepbeep]

Originally Posted by dw1

It appears from my observations that Sweden is not as "car culture" oriented as the US (or Germany).

You would be surprised. Stockholm is special case, as it is quite expensive to own/park car there. But outside if Stockholm, in the boonies, you will find just about any kind of old American iron you can think of.

[svandamme]

As far as I can tell the car culture there is very big and although Northerners can come across as a bit weird a times due to those long dark winters, they are often spent coming up with some unhinged engine swaps and amazing metal work.
Probably more DIY then USA even, a lot less checkbook customs and a lot more real owner customization work. Beepcorrectmeifi'mwrongBeep

[KNS]

I'd love to visit Sweden someday as I have ancestry from Skultuna (my last name is a derivation of Skultuna). My brother and I have been thinking about visiting one of these days.

[Tobra]

Swedes are mental for old American iron, in my experience

[Shaun @ Tru6]

This thread dovetails with one I want to start, What do other countries do better than the U.S.? I've been studying Germany, Japan and France for travel plans. Germany's out, Oktoberfest is cancelled.

Anyway, some nuggets: in Japan, kids clean their classroom and help serve lunch. All kids. In France, it's illegal for kids to have cell phones in school. In China, they just passed a 3 hour limit per day for video games. Germany has free university. Our tax rates aren't really all that low given the level of services we are provided.

Honestly the more I learn about other countries, the more the U.S. sucks balls in comparison. They have their issues too, it just seems that we have squandered so much Exceptionalism, we have become more of a hick backwater where everyone yells FREEDOM and has no concept of RESPONSIBILITY.