Any Glaziers here?

[stealthn]

I am convinced our windows in our house are toast. We build the house in 2001 and have had the calking redone on schedule, but I’m sure the thermal value of the double pane has given up. It’s been cold here in winter and the house has been way colder this year.
My wife gave me a thermal gun for my birthday, so I measured the walls at 20 degrees C and the window right next to it at 10. We have a lot of windows and two rooms with two story windows.

Is there any tools or anything to measure the thermal efficiency of the glass?

I am dreading the cost and hassle of replacing all the windows.

Thoughts?

[serene911]

If the insulated units have failed, it's very obvious because you will have moisture and
condensation on the inside of the units. If the windows are clear they should be fine.
Not sure what you mean by caulking.If the windows are in a vinyl frame there is a snap
bead that holds the glass on one side.On the other side is a glazing tape that goes between
the glass and the frame. The only caulking you might have would be between the frame
and the wood casing or siding. Wood frames are similar although some companies instead
of using glazing tape will caulk between the glass and the frame which essentially glues
them together making it much more difficult to replace the units. Even with insulated units
the insulating value is low. Windows are rated with a U value. If you convert the U value to
an R value it usually is between approx. 1.8 to 2.8 depending on the unit and if it was Low E
glass on the exterior lite.

[MRM]

There are few people in this world who know more about residential windows than me. What brand are they? Jeld-Wen by any chance? Is there any fogging between the panes? Do you get much condensation? Do you get any drafts around the windows?

Based on what you've said so far I suspect you would see an improvement by making sure there's good insulation in the rough opening between the window frames and the framing more than buying new windows.

If you look at the corners of the glass do you see any kind of manufacturer's code or the insignia CIG? There should be a date, at least. Whatever the etching says, it might mean something to me.

The late 90s and early 2000s were a hard time for window technology. The materials and science hadn't quite caught up to the new energy codes and some manufacturers were pushing their designs and materials a bit farther than they would hold up over the long term.

[stevej37]

The original windows in my house required glazing redone every 7-10 years.
After the first couple times...I realized it wasn't worth it anymore.

Had them all replaced with more efficient modern windows. Best investment I made.
No more glazing/caulking or painting...they wrapped the exterior with aluminum.

[MRM]

Bob has a different style window than your old ones. He has a double pane window with an aluminum seal, probably with argon inside. They are either aluminum clad wood windows or vinyl clad wood windows. I gather they're vinyl clad. It's possible they're a contractor grade solid vinyl window, but given how far north he is I doubt it. They aren't glazed yearly in the way yours were. From an outward appearances a 2001 double pane clad window will look almost exactly like the new windows you recently bought. Unless the windows are actually failing (which is a possibility for this era of manufacturing) the installation is a bigger factor than the window product. Were your new aluminum clads Kolbe & Kolbe by any chance?

[stevej37]

^^^ I have no idea of the name. They were built and installed by a local window company.

They measured one day...a couple weeks later they installed 17 of them in the same day.
There were 6 workers involved in the install.

[MRM]

Look in the lower right hand corner and see if you can find a manufacturer’s bug. Post a photo of it if you can.

I think Bob will find that if he pulls the trim from around the inside of the windows he’ll be able to see into the rough opening and there won’t be much, if any insulation. He can apply a closed cell, low expansion foam into the rough opening to seal all the voids and I think he’ll see a vast improvement. He should try that before buying new windows.

[serene911]

MRM,respectfully I think if he pulls the trim from around the windows on the inside
the only thing he will see is drywall. Maybe in Florida they drywall differently but
I know in The Pacific Northwest drywall butts right up to the casing and the trim
is attached to the top of the drywall.The only way he is going to see any rough
framing is by pulling sheetrock which I don't believe is very practical. I do agree
with you that trying to find area's of air infiltration is a good place to start. Also if
this years winter is much colder than last year that could be a factor.

[908/930]

I see you are in Calgary, Hmmm -16c or 3F there at the moment. You really can't compare the temp of a insulated wall to a double pane window, heavy window coverings can help. I think 3/4 plywood is equal to about R1, it will take a pretty good window likely triple pane to make much difference. If it feels different then years ago possibly feel for air leaks around the window on a windy day, with your IR thermometer check the temp of the drywall right by the window trim it really should not change if it does you could have leaks around the window. How well sealed is the house are you using a HRV?

[MRM]

Originally Posted by serene911

MRM,respectfully I think if he pulls the trim from around the windows on the inside
the only thing he will see is drywall. Maybe in Florida they drywall differently but
I know in The Pacific Northwest drywall butts right up to the casing and the trim
is attached to the top of the drywall.The only way he is going to see any rough
framing is by pulling sheetrock which I don't believe is very practical. I do agree
with you that trying to find area's of air infiltration is a good place to start. Also if
this years winter is much colder than last year that could be a factor.

This is true. If he has a drywall return he’ll have to cut into the drywall to access the roughy opening, but I’m assuming the era of his house and where he is he’ll have wood trim instead. If so, there will be some gap between the drywall and rough opening. Even if not, he can cut the drywall back a bit and it will be covered by trim when he puts it back on, so drywallrepairs wouldn’t be much of an issue. The idea is that he can stick the nozzle of a closed cell foam dispenser into the openings in that joint and fill the void with foam. His builder probably used fiberglass all those years ago and it’s probably not doing much anymore. If he does have a drywall return, it’s not a big job to punch a hole in it and stick a borescope into the rough opening and see what’s there. Then he’d just use a couple of holes like that around each window to apply the foam. Drywall repair to access the wall cavity really isn’t a big deal when reworking a window installation. It’s a lot less disruptive than replacing them.

[stealthn]

Thanks guys, these are aluminium clad double pane glass with I assume argon gas. There are no leaks/drafts around the frames. They have been fine every year up to this one. No fog, condensation, etc. wall right beside window is fine. I read that most windows will only last 15-20 years.

I don’t know the make but I will look.

If they need replacement my concern is around the windows as we have stucco. I was here everyday when the house was built so I know it was done right.

[911 Rod]

What's the humidity in your house?
I had to turn down my humidifier to reduce the condensation at the bottom of the windows. The condensation only happens when it's really cold.

[Zeke]

Well, MRM may know more about windows than anyone, but I have personally installed around 5000 windows with my own two arms, hence the shoulder replacement.

Here in CA we hardly ever see temp differential of more than 40º F. In Canada, I can see the usefulness of argon whereas here not so much.

Here's the deal: some window manufacturers will leave a small equalizer tube in between the glass panels. The reason is, if the windows are built and sealed at 1000' elevation and shipped to Vail, they can explode. At least they will be distorted like a football.

Therefore, as the temps go up and down daily, the little tube acts as a pump and the argon is removed over time. There is no practical way of replacing the gas.

As mentioned, and condensation inside is proof that the seal is compromised if only the tube. I've never experienced it, but I've been told that on some windows the tubes can be accessed and pinched off once the windows have become acclimated, which should be rather quick once they reach their destination and altitude.

It isn't out of the question to replace the glazing but you want to answer the following questions first: is there any draft or convection in and around the windows, or indeed, the house itself? And the surround of the installation, once again covered above in other posts. Last in the convection category is weather-stripping. Must be intact and in good order.

Is there unnecessary conduction, or heat loss? This would be weak glazing, too close of a gap, loss of gas and even not enough window covering (inside or outside).

The third energy factor is radiation and heat can radiate both ways (in and out). The LowE coatings are designed to reflect infrared rays. Here in SoCal, we just reflect the incoming, but dual LowE (both ways) is available.

A quick and inexpensive fix is fitted storm windows. Your R rating will be increased by the addition of a 3rd pane, even if it is not sealed to the dual pane unit. But it must be fitted with some W/S or you won't gain the potential.

I'll leave the subject of heat gain (summer) for another discussion, but it will be similar in nature.

[jhynesrockmtn]

My son bought a house last year built in the mid 90's. I was there with the inspector as he was still at Ft. Bragg at the time and couldn't travel. This house had several windows failing, now almost 30 years old. They are vinyl, double pane. He explained that the glass sections could be removed and replaced with new without replacing the whole window mechanism. Does that make sense? They had it done by a local company along with other work before they took possession.

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by jhynesrockmtn

...the glass sections could be removed and replaced with new without replacing the whole window mechanism. Does that make sense?

Serene911 has done this for me.

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by stealthn

Thanks guys, these are aluminium clad double pane glass with I assume argon gas.

There's a reason frying pans are sometimes made of aluminum. It transfers heat very well.
You are probably losing more heat through the aluminum frame than the double pane glass.

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by stealthn

I am dreading the cost and hassle of replacing all the windows.

Thoughts?

I'm on the same time line and have the same dread. My house is a craftsman style job and to carry on the theme, I'm again looking at wood windows but the original coated pine started to fail about 8 years ago. So, I'm looking at stained wood and the price is what I would consider absurd.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by stealthn

Thanks guys, these are aluminium clad double pane glass with I assume argon gas. There are no leaks/drafts around the frames. They have been fine every year up to this one. No fog, condensation, etc. wall right beside window is fine. I read that most windows will only last 15-20 years.

I don’t know the make but I will look.

If they need replacement my concern is around the windows as we have stucco. I was here everyday when the house was built so I know it was done right.

With modern double pane windows, you can have the IGU replaced but leave the frames in place. That wouldn't require removal of any wall or trim inside or outside.

If your IGU had failed, I think you'd know.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Dantilla

There's a reason frying pans are sometimes made of aluminum. It transfers heat very well.
You are probably losing more heat through the aluminum frame than the double pane glass.

They are AL clad. Read.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by jhynesrockmtn

My son bought a house last year built in the mid 90's. I was there with the inspector as he was still at Ft. Bragg at the time and couldn't travel. This house had several windows failing, now almost 30 years old. They are vinyl, double pane. He explained that the glass sections could be removed and replaced with new without replacing the whole window mechanism. Does that make sense? They had it done by a local company along with other work before they took possession.

Yep, when we were in our apt, the complex was about 5 years old and had bad windows all over the place. They replaced several in our apt. When we bought our house a year ago, we had 2 windows that had mold inside and then a third with broken glass. We had all 3 replaced for a few hundred bucks.