when does Technology become "cheating".?
 

okay, okay. cheating is too strong of language. how about "unfair advantage"?

new gear comes out and some tasks get easier. i am kayak fishing a lot, and i am contemplating getting an electric motor. its a lot of effort tho. i love the simplicity of my current ride. just slide it out of the truck, put gear in, and i am on the water in 5 minutes. same in reverse. its nice. my friend recently got a motor and it is damn nice. spot lock, he can eat and drink while moving to the new spot. but watching him load batteries, hook up wires, and then strap on the motor was a bit much. not inexpensive either. my new kayak has the threaded inserts to install a motor easy.

got me thinking, "instead of a motor, why not get the latest fishfinder tech?" same magnitude of money. its called Live Scope. you can see the bass before you ever cast to them. you see your lure, you see the fish look at lure.. i'm not a great fisherman. i could use the help. but i am not sure. it is the biggest advantage. the literally cannot hide. i can peek under lily pads.

its everywhere. hyper long range hunting rifles, drones, laser rangefinder binoculars.. pick a hobby, any thing..there is some tech gear now.

thank the heavens i am still spry and strong enough to pedal my kayak long and far. i did almost 10 miles saturday in a stiff breeze.

i was tired, and my buddy wasnt. but i just as fast as his motor. ;)

10 miles. one bass :(

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1644267494.jpg

manual transmissions vs flappy paddle gearboxes with computers that rev match for you on downshifts....

Yep, you can make things faster, more efficient, and easier, but are you making them "better."

I'm not a fisherman. I've been a couple few times in my life and don't get it. It's boring to me. But, based on the folks that I've spoken to that do enjoy it, I don't know that making it that easy would make it better. When I was about 12/13, we were camping in the mountains. My dad took me to a fish farm place where they had a pond where you could fish. Even as a kid where what you usually want is the reward, that was boring. Cast a hook into the water, even without bait and you were probably going to pull up a fish in seconds. They must have been starving.

There are times that tech can make things easier and more enjoyable without going too far. There are other times that they go so far that they take the enjoyment out of it.

I guess if I was fishing to feed my family, something like that would be great.

when does Technology become "cheating".?

When you start using electric jolts to bring the fish to the surface floating.

Why back in my day, I had to paddle my row boat five miles to school, into the wind, both ways, against the tide, in the rain...

There is an old Navy pilot saying, "If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying..."

For me, it really depends. I like to hunt Doves but I only hunt Doves for sport with a .410 o/u. Harder in my mind is better for sport bird hunting.

If I had to hunt to eat, the equation changes.

It is interesting where we draw the technology line: My son will only hunt deer in bow season with a compound bow, even though cross bows are allowed in Maryland...nevermind that a compound bow is a wonder of technology.

He thinks cross bows are unfair: "You have to draw a bow."

Excellent question.

Ask yourself why you fish in the first place. Is it because you just like being on the water? Do you need the fish or at least the occasional reward of catching one?
There is an old expression about "shooting fish in a barrel ". not a lot of fun in that for most folks.
You will justify what you want and ignore the rest.

Best
Les

Exactly. How fun would it be to go to the track, program the track into your car, strap into the drivers seat, and then sit back and let the car drive you around the track faster than if you were actually doing the driving.

[MontyPython]Oooohhh, you were lucky! We had to row our boat upstream through rapids until we got to a pond. At the other end was a waterfall, 100 feet high if it was 1, with piranha swimming down it. We had to row up the waterfall, avoiding thousands of razor sharp teeth...

But we were happy in those days.[/MontyPython]

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And then lose the passenger to save weight. Or... maybe put the car in a video game and simulate it all. And you can lay down banana peels to make the other drivers spin out?

I think its a healthy question.

Suppose you had a device that could tell you where the fish were. Suppose you had one that would lure them to you. The point is gratification by catching lots o fish? A robot fish that goes and fetches fish to you? I thought it was supposed to be recreation. I've seen folks on our lake with $60k custom painted bass boats. Poor sad people racing around and staring at their screens. They bought all the stuff from the magazines but they look miserable.

These days seeing more ebikes on mtb trails. As far as I'm concerned its a bunch of fat lazy losers on dirt bikes, folks too timid to grow a pair and take some pain. Fact is when you're so feeble that you can't ride a bicycle without a motor you also can't safely maneuver the extra weight on the trails I ride. Commuting it makes sense but the extra speed makes no sense when you're just out for yourself. I know a couple 70 year olds, one a cancer survivor, that heckle like crazy when an ebiker comes by. They're slow, ragged breath but living the life.

Everyone sets their own level of tolerance, but it makes me sad to see people dumb down their recreation, like they've lost sight of the joys of pain, effort and persistence. I hear folks say the new kids these days can't take a hit but I see it is the boomers that suck as human beings.

I fish for pleasure .... and catching them doesn't really matter to me at all... I toss them all back anyways.

I've seen yer pics Cliff ... you don't need to cheat :D

Dynamite, you need to buy dynamite!

Cheaper than a fish finder and no paddling as the fish come to you

Or an army surplus RPG should do it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk6Puz_sdts

Way cheaper than a sherpa.......

Too soon?

Wait, you had oars? Lucky

In response to the original question, when does tech become cheating?


Pretty sure if Smokey Yunick thought of it first, they called it cheating

Steve said a mouthful, " I don't know that making it that easy would make it better."

It's the difference from leisurely sport to commercial competition. I never understood fishing tournaments. When I was little, a pre teen, and then some, I fished with my grandfather because that's what he did. We did. When he died when I was 15, I never fished again.

Like Steve again, maybe bored. But I understood it.

He was the consummate fisherman. Fly fish, or bait, almost always streams and rivers. No tricks or gimmicks and he could limit out in 2 hours early in the morning when the trout limit was 10 per day.

We did eat (the whole extended family) what he caught so he wasn't about to catch and release. And if they 'planted' fish, he went elsewhere to catch naturals.

Dating app technology is a tool for a form of cheating.

;)Dating app? Tender?;)

This. What do you want to do? Maybe casing lines and taking your chances is where the fun is. Or maybe just coming home with fish is your goal, in which case the dynamite suggestion is the right strategy.

This reminds me of the "journey vs destination" thread...

I find it quite enjoyable to master difficult tasks/activities without all the extra technology. I'm all about the experience and building the skill...

When you really want to cheat, you go Old School:

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there is no such thing as hyper long range hunting rifles.
Anybody who shoots at animals at long range, is doing it for the ego for a long range shot, not because he's hunting. So to me they are called long range ego rifles.
if you cannot guarantee shot placement, you shouldn't shoot at animals and you cannot guarantee shot placement to kill instantly past 500 yds . (and even that's already a stretch)
The rifles ability to shoot far is not the problem, the ballistics, terrain, wind, shooter ability and getting the animal in a clean shot IS.

wounding an animal, you cannot get to it to finish it off either, by the time you ran the 500 yards over uneven terrain, it ran off 800 yds bleeding and suffering.
I have nothing against hunting, if it's to fill a fridge and done properly.. but anybody who shoots long range at animals is no hunter in my book, he's an egoist.
Nothing can be done to change that with some kind of special rifle for the hyper long range hunt. it doesn't exist.


All hobbies have a "Gear" industry
You can play darts with a simple board and darts. for 100 bucks
But there are thousands of bucks worth of gadgets and stuff you can buy related to darts.

you can go fishing with a simple line and a fixed pole.. hook and find some bait.
But most end up with a dedicated van to haul all the expensive gadgets they "need", tent, nets, bite detectors, feed boats, cooler boxes.. etc etc

Can go shooting with an old .22 garden rifle..
But most seem to gather up huge safe full of guns they rarely shoot..scopes, mats, reloading gear, gadgets

For a big part It's not about technology, it's about a business that caters to the needs of hobbyists
and hobbyists that well.. NEEED that new bit of gear, because it will make their life "complete"

its addiction really, impulse buying and retail therapy


now obviously with age , an electric motor at some point becomes more useful and enjoyable.. (but it won't be good exercise)

On my 10' sit on fishing kayak, I have decided to KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) for the simple pleasure of being out on the water, and now worrying about expensive systems either getting stolen, and falling in should I capsize. I have a painted milk crate with a lid strapped down behind me with a retractable anchor attached. I also built a PVC pipe, wheeled carry dolly that fits into the scupper holes for easy transfer over long parking lots (only weighs 5#, and stores behind my seat on while on the water).

I looked at the padal kayaks, but ended up going cheap with the Lifetime Tamarack Pro.https://www.amazon.com/Lifetime-Tamarack-Angler-Fishing-Paddles/dp/B0856Q62BZ

Perhaps one of the oldest fishing technologies known is the weir:



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1644342476.jpg

Hyper long rifle hunting is no cake walk I assure you. Just because your bullet can travel a mile or two doesn't mean you can hit a living animal past 600 yards with a cold bore kill shot.

I'm no bench rest guy, but I have gongs set up every 100 yards out to 1000 off my deck. I reload. I have a chrony to mark bullet speeds, I use a ballistic calculator to be able to type in a distance and my bullet velocities to have a good idea where the point of impact will be. Even with all the best intentions for me getting a cold bore hit, first shot, past six hundred yards sucks. The vast number of hunters keep the hunting shot inside of 600 yards. Past that its sketch. See with most bullets it takes over a second to reach a target past 800 yards. So the animal can take a step with the bullet en-route and you end up with a gut shot. And that's not even with a slight breeze, or the million other maths and sums that try to screw up your shot. I'm talking a one half grain difference in gun powder, or a bullet squeezed tighter in the neck of the brass than another. Plus all bullets need a specific speed at a specific distance to open up to do their thing. Otherwise its just a pencil hole that may or may not go all the way through the animal.

Fact. Most guys have to shoot up-wards of twenty rounds at a long range target(1700 yards) to actually hit the thing. You pretty much need a spotter to walk you in.

I killed my cow elk at 550 yards this past season as she was standing between my 500 and 600 yard gongs feeding. Perfect lung heart shot. I was sweating like crazy, time slowed down, I checked and rechecked my dope for my scope. I had every possible good thing going for me and I was still worried. She fell in one shot. I've since traded that 6.5 Creedmore for a 6.5 PRC. That cow didn't get hit hard enough for me. I needed more pepper.

Here's cheating...Early morning driving up and down the logging roads glassing clear-cuts and drainages with a thermal hand-held spotter. When you get a heat sig, you pull over and use the optical spotting scope to see if the critter is worth a stalk. Thats cheating.-WW

The new fish finders, and all the stuff you can link to them, can have a huge learning curve.

Ok...here comes the 'good ole days' stories...

I learned how to fish using a 15 foot cane pole, a bobber, and worms that we dug. The length of the pole allowed a gentle drop of the bait right where you wanted every time.
On good days we would catch a bucket full of blue-gills, crappies, and sunfish.

To get to the fishing spot..one person would have to hold the poles on the side of the car.

Every fish was eaten in that day.

Hey Vash, found you a new fishing tool…

https://www.facebook.com/stagecoachmarina/videos/471697271058880?fs=e&s=cl