I think Alexa is listening to us when it’s not supposed to be

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Aurel

One day we were driving with Apple Maps on and discussing that a lot of people were going to die from the pandemic…and Siri said without being asked “Here is a list of the nearest hospitals, where would you like to go?”

WTF? The Siri Beotch was apparently also listening to our conversation….

Siri does listen all of the time (listening for "hey siri"). But there is also a setting where you can tell her "I don't want to have to say 'hey, siri.'" I have no idea, but when that setting came out or in some subsequent upgrade it may have been made a default.

[Rot 911]

A few weeks ago I was talking to my wife about the Janus motorcycle I ended up buying. Then she started getting Facebook ads for Janus motorcycles. As did I. There is no doubt in my mind that the phone is always on to receiving voice information and passing it onto various apps.

[porsche930dude]

Originally Posted by Geronimo '74

That phenomenon has existed since long before Alexa or Google hub.
Reports of people getting facebook ads for things they were talking about earlier have existed for years.

Its worse than that I get ads for things i was just thinking about and didnt say a word. I dont even own a cell phone. I need a foil hat!

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by cantdrv55

Wtf. I think the beotch is spying on us.

Lol, ya think?

[masraum]

Originally Posted by cantdrv55

...I went on Facebook to surf and up pops an ad for a bunion surgery center.

Originally Posted by PorscheGAL

I may be Facebook through your cell phone listening in.

I think this is the setting that you guys may want to update.
Settings - Privacy


Microphone


Facebook (and anything else in the list that you think is a good idea)


__________________________________________________ _______________
Then back out to the first layer of Settings, scroll way down to Facebook


Microphone


I generally go through every setting on my phone/PC because you never know what you'll find. And in some cases, the settings are in the phone OS and in other cases, the settings are in the app.

[Tishabet]

Originally Posted by BK911

If its not listening, how does it know when you give it a command?

Here is how the device works:

The device itself is "listening" 100% of the time for the "wake word" (Alexa being the common one but you can choose others) so in that sense yes, it is "listening" all the time. It is not recording anything at this point.

Once it hears the wake word, it does start recording. It lets you know this by lighting up. It records until you stop talking (or pause too long, a common annoyance).

It then takes that recording and sends it off over the internet to the Amazon servers. The Amazon servers are where all of the real computing exists... that is where "Alexa" actually "listens" to your words in the recording, tries to guess at what you actually said, and decides how to respond appropriately. The response (whether it is a music stream or an answer to your question or whatever) is then sent back to your device. Point being, the device itself is basically a dumb terminal which can only
-listen for the wake word and create a subsequent recording to send to "the real Alexa"
-act as a speaker, playing back the response sent to it by "the real Alexa"
-store a small amount of settings/functionality e.g. if you set an alarm for 6AM and sometime during the night your internet goes down your alarm will still go off because that info is stored locally on the device itself. The device also stores stuff like your wifi info, which "wake word" you have configured, and some basic responses (like "I'm having trouble connecting to the internet")

That's everything.

If you think about this from a scientific method perspective (hypothesis: this device is actually making recordings and sending them to someone even when I did not use the wake word) one of the counterindications ("how would I know if my hypothesis were not true") is that the device relies 100% on your internet to communicate... there is no cell signal, radio or whatever used to emit info from the device (it does support bluetooth but you would need to set that up). So anyone who is knowledgeable about how the internet and networking works can attach the device to their internet and directly observe the "packets" emitted by the device. Audio recordings are not small, it would be readily apparent if there was something extra coming and going.

[zakthor]

For longest time fb was feeding me ads for 'helium flow meters' and 'whole site voltage regulation'. I didn't know what they were, interesting, so I kept clicking. Weird industrial stuff. I still don't know what is special about a helium flow meter or who would want one.

Around december a year ago fb decided I was a different person, started getting ads for Kustom Choppers, Taverns across the country with Lady UFC-Style Fighting and.... hooters. Pretty damn disturbing stuff so I told it I never wanted to see that stuff. Now its just generic boring stuff that I don't notice. Occasionally white water kayaking stuff which is cool I guess.

I'd like to think the personal knowledge lets it feed me ads for stuff I want but wow to me the ad targeting seems utterly and completely inept.

Then again I have all the security stuff dialed down pretty far.

[pmax]

Deleting the app should work too.

Should.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Tishabet

Here is how the device works:

The device itself is "listening" 100% of the time for the "wake word" (Alexa being the common one but you can choose others) so in that sense yes, it is "listening" all the time. It is not recording anything at this point.

Once it hears the wake word, it does start recording. It lets you know this by lighting up. It records until you stop talking (or pause too long, a common annoyance).

It then takes that recording and sends it off over the internet to the Amazon servers. The Amazon servers are where all of the real computing exists... that is where "Alexa" actually "listens" to your words in the recording, tries to guess at what you actually said, and decides how to respond appropriately. The response (whether it is a music stream or an answer to your question or whatever) is then sent back to your device. Point being, the device itself is basically a dumb terminal which can only
-listen for the wake word and create a subsequent recording to send to "the real Alexa"
-act as a speaker, playing back the response sent to it by "the real Alexa"
-store a small amount of settings/functionality e.g. if you set an alarm for 6AM and sometime during the night your internet goes down your alarm will still go off because that info is stored locally on the device itself. The device also stores stuff like your wifi info, which "wake word" you have configured, and some basic responses (like "I'm having trouble connecting to the internet")

That's everything.

If you think about this from a scientific method perspective (hypothesis: this device is actually making recordings and sending them to someone even when I did not use the wake word) one of the counterindications ("how would I know if my hypothesis were not true") is that the device relies 100% on your internet to communicate... there is no cell signal, radio or whatever used to emit info from the device (it does support bluetooth but you would need to set that up). So anyone who is knowledgeable about how the internet and networking works can attach the device to their internet and directly observe the "packets" emitted by the device. Audio recordings are not small, it would be readily apparent if there was something extra coming and going.

Cool, thx. I know that Apple has "Hey, Siri" as a common/default wake word. And at some point in the past, there's now a setting that is available so you don't have to say "hey, siri." Does Alexa have something similar?

Besides, I don't think it's Alexa that's the problem in the OP, it's far more likely that it's the Facebook app on his phone.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by zakthor

For longest time fb was feeding me ads for 'helium flow meters' and 'whole site voltage regulation'. I didn't know what they were, interesting, so I kept clicking. Weird industrial stuff. I still don't know what is special about a helium flow meter or who would want one.

Around december a year ago fb decided I was a different person, started getting ads for Kustom Choppers, Taverns across the country with Lady UFC-Style Fighting and.... hooters. Pretty damn disturbing stuff so I told it I never wanted to see that stuff. Now its just generic boring stuff that I don't notice. Occasionally white water kayaking stuff which is cool I guess.

I'd like to think the personal knowledge lets it feed me ads for stuff I want but wow to me the ad targeting seems utterly and completely inept.

Then again I have all the security stuff dialed down pretty far.

I think Facebook sometimes tries to guess what you might be interested in (whether it's what's trending or "people that are interested in what you look at are also interested in XYZ" or what I don't know). I think if Facebook gives you an ad for XYZ and you click the ad, they'll then start feeding you more of those because you were interested. So when the one random ad for helium flow meters popped up and you clicked it, you opened the flood gates.

[SCadaddle]

It's been a few years ago, but one morning I walked into the local convenience store for a pack of cigarettes. Standing in line at the cashier I happened to glance to the left and noticed the hot dog machine where they have hot dogs and sausages on heated rollers, a warming box for the buns next to it. I was kind of hungry and actually thought a couple of "gas station hot dogs" might fit the bill, but nah, I'll get something later on. So I turned my attention back towards the cashier.

Then I heard a "flop" sound.
I turned to look and here was a damn hot dog on the floor rolling towards me.

Then I actually noticed yet another one roll off the machine resulting in a "flop" on the floor and it was also rolling towards me!

I thought what the hell is going on here?! I pointed it out to the cashier and asked her if "Google Mind Control 2.5 has already been released and why didn't I get the notice?!"

The cashier laughed and said "no, the girl that just finished her shift loaded the machine and she put the hot dogs in the same area as the sausages, and the sausages cause the hot dogs to get rolled off the machine. Happens all the time."!

[masraum]

Originally Posted by SCadaddle

It's been a few years ago, but one morning I walked into the local convenience store for a pack of cigarettes. Standing in line at the cashier I happened to glance to the left and noticed the hot dog machine where they have hot dogs and sausages on heated rollers, a warming box for the buns next to it. I was kind of hungry and actually thought a couple of "gas station hot dogs" might fit the bill, but nah, I'll get something later on. So I turned my attention back towards the cashier.

Then I heard a "flop" sound.
I turned to look and here was a damn hot dog on the floor rolling towards me.

Then I actually noticed yet another one roll off the machine resulting in a "flop" on the floor and it was also rolling towards me!

I thought what the hell is going on here?! I pointed it out to the cashier and asked her if "Google Mind Control 2.5 has already been released and why didn't I get the notice?!"

The cashier laughed and said "no, the girl that just finished her shift loaded the machine and she put the hot dogs in the same area as the sausages, and the sausages cause the hot dogs to get rolled off the machine. Happens all the time."!

queue

[john70t]

Originally Posted by Tishabet

That's everything.

Just about everything. In 2019 they got 'caught' but nothing changed.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/10/18305378/amazon-alexa-ai-voice-assistant-annotation-listen-private-recordings
In many cases, human beings make those calls, by listening to a recording of the exchange and correctly labeling the data so that it can be fed back into the system. That process is very broadly known as supervised learning, and in some cases it’s paired with other, more autonomous techniques in what’s known as semi-supervised learning. Apple, Google, and Facebook all make use of these techniques in similar ways, and both Siri and Google Assistant improve over time thanks to supervised learning requiring human eyes and ears.

https://techcrunch.com/2019/08/03/amazon-quietly-adds-no-human-review-option-to-alexa-as-voice-ais-face-privacy-scrutiny/
The Alexa T&C did not previously inform users of the possibility that audio recordings captured by the service might be manually reviewed by actual humans. (Amazon still doesn’t appear to provide this disclosure on its main website either.)

Some people don't mind strangers(human or AI) listening in to every conversation made within their home. Their relationships. Their proprietary info.
Some might if they knew.
Some definitely do.

[gordner]

There is no time sure or Alexa are not supposed to be listening" short of pulling the power.

[stevej37]

Originally Posted by cantdrv55

My wife and I were discussing bunion surgery. A few minutes later, I went on Facebook to surf and up pops an ad for a bunion surgery center. Wtf. I think the beotch is spying on us.

You need to get the Echo Show from Amazon.
Then you can let them see your bunion also.

I've had mine for close to two years now...You can use it for video calls easily.

[zakthor]

Originally Posted by masraum

I think Facebook sometimes tries to guess what you might be interested in (whether it's what's trending or "people that are interested in what you look at are also interested in XYZ" or what I don't know). I think if Facebook gives you an ad for XYZ and you click the ad, they'll then start feeding you more of those because you were interested. So when the one random ad for helium flow meters popped up and you clicked it, you opened the flood gates.

Yeah but then the kustom choppers, lady fighting and hooters? Not my bag at all. Can't imagine where it got evidence that I was into that.

Kustom Chopperz are just stupid. Women's MMA/boxing: sure, maybe, if they're any good, but hooters ads were by far the most disturbing, those red pants and vacant cow eyes. Ewww! Cree-Pee!

Is like it got me mixed up with someone else. Or maybe fb personality segued me from 'people that buy whole site voltage regulation' to their preferred entertainment.

Anyway, that stuffs gone now. Ads now are really lame, not anything I'd even consider clicking on.

So from my experience all this aparatus is broken, the personal data isn't being interpreted well enough to be dangerous. I guess thats good but its also sorta sad. What a waste of all that compute.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by zakthor

For longest time fb was feeding me ads for 'helium flow meters' and 'whole site voltage regulation'.

Main thing I get on YouTube that's strange is children's diapers for older kids that still wet their bed.

I'm 65 so I could see incontinence as a basis for adult diapers but I don't talk about it because I'm fortunate not to suffer from it.

Now that I said this there will be some huge news story tomorrow that those seniors that receive adolescent diaper ads are more than likely deeply closeted necrophiliacs.

[Tishabet]

Originally Posted by john70t

Just about everything. In 2019 they got 'caught' but nothing changed.

It is true that (as described in the two articles you linked) it is possible a human at Amazon could manually review one of the recordings that you send (the "It then takes that recording and sends it off over the internet to the Amazon servers" step from my explanation) when the "Help Improve Alexa" setting is set to "on."

For that matter, you yourself can listen to all of them if you want (from your Alexa app go to Settings -> Alexa Privacy -> Review Voice History) and can change your settings to opt out of "Help Improve Alexa" or set it to auto delete all recordings immediately (from your Alexa app go to Settings -> Alexa Privacy -> Manage Your Alexa Data).

Personally I find it worrisome that the "Help Improve Alexa" setting is on by default (you can update your Alexa Privacy setting to opt out of any manual human review but by default you are opted in), much as I dislike that some software defaults to "share debugging info" by default which is comparable.

But were they "caught"... I wouldn't say so but up for debate I guess. In any case, a universe away from "my device is listening to my conversations and recording me when I am not asking it to record me and subsequently using the data for marketing."

Edit: additional note here, I'm sure to some of you it sounds like I'm shilling for Amazon and/or acting as some sort of fanboi. The truth is that I have lots of misgivings about the company and have no personal or financial stake in their success, nor have I been involved with them for some time. If Amazon imploded today I would be bummed on a personal level for the many people I still know there and perhaps there would be a knock-on effect with Seattle population and real estate, but you get the idea. Primarily trying to share what I know to help the rest of you get some better understanding of how this stuff works/how worried you should be.

[Por_sha911]

[pmax]

Originally Posted by gordner

There is no time sure or Alexa are not supposed to be listening" short of pulling the power.

Yep, unplug it.

That should work.