Input on engineering schools, VT, ASU, FIT, Rose

[cockerpunk]

it doesnt matter which school you pick off that list. alma matter doesn't matter anymore. ive hired dozens of engineers in my career and if you judge them based on school, it doesn't work out. some of the best engineers ive hired were from no name schools.

personally, id tell him to go mechanical over aerospace. aerospace is just a subsection of mechanical but you can hire a mechanical for aerospace, you can't hire an aerospace for mechanical. also if hes interested in a masters, mechanical engineer could go into aero that way, but again, your not gonna get an aero doing a masters on mechanical.

[Chocaholic]

Originally Posted by berettafan

Choc GT was the reach school but didn't get in.

What i'm trying to understand is if any of the schools he was admitted to give a decided advantage on internships and job opportunities after. Thus far the read i get is 'not really unless its Stanford, MIT or GT'. And at that point are we just shopping price and location?

My son didn’t get in either. Did his first year at GA Southern and then transferred in for year 2 with no issue. The diploma comes from the school you graduate from. If AE is his passion, GT is not out of reach.

BTW...CP is spot on (above). Going for AE can be very limiting for career choice. Mechanical will offer him more options. We tried to convince our son of that, but his mind was made up.

[Roswell]

Originally Posted by MBAtarga

He should be a Yellow Jacket!

1. Best aerospace engineering schools in the US – US News Rankings 2021

California Institute of Technology (Caltech)
Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)
Stanford University
Georgia Institute of Technology (Georgia Tech)
University of Michigan – Ann Arbor
Purdue University – West Lafayette
University of Illinois – Urbana Champaign
University of Texas – Austin
Texas A&M University – College Station
Cornell University

Georgia Tech should be considered, IMHO. Great school.

[IROC]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

personally, id tell him to go mechanical over aerospace. aerospace is just a subsection of mechanical but you can hire a mechanical for aerospace, you can't hire an aerospace for mechanical.

This is the advice I always give...

I got my BSME from Tennessee Tech University in 1986. I've worked in nuclear, aerospace and now a neutron scattering research facility. A good, solid ME degree from any reputable (ABET accredited) school will serve one well...

[berettafan]

Thanks, that is good advice.

Really do appreciate all the input here from industry folks and people who are just older and wiser with more experience sending kids through college.

[Otter74]

Originally Posted by fintstone

This. I was once adjunct faculty at GT. But, engineering there is a very, very challenging program. They also have good Army, Navy, and AF ROTC Programs. Probably not the same college town atmosphere to enjoy as a lot of schools since it is in downtown Atlanta.

Gonna third this. I went there 1993-98 for a BSME. It's one of the best engineering schools anywhere. Was a fantastic value 30 years ago (my entire education cost under $30k, counting *everything*) if you were from Georgia, maybe not so much now.

[Otter74]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

it doesnt matter which school you pick off that list. alma matter doesn't matter anymore. ive hired dozens of engineers in my career and if you judge them based on school, it doesn't work out. some of the best engineers ive hired were from no name schools.

personally, id tell him to go mechanical over aerospace. aerospace is just a subsection of mechanical but you can hire a mechanical for aerospace, you can't hire an aerospace for mechanical. also if hes interested in a masters, mechanical engineer could go into aero that way, but again, your not gonna get an aero doing a masters on mechanical.

I agree with this, too. If he does well, it doesn't matter too much what school he goes to as long as it's basically a good school. I don't think it would be worth racking up tons of debt just to go to More Prestigious School over Less Prestigious But Cheaper School, particularly if he wants to go to grad school afterwards.

[Otter74]

Originally Posted by fintstone

As I noted, it was an excellent school when I worked there, but not a typical small town campus (where the school "is" the town). The students, professors and curriculum were first rate. We got the brightest and the best. It certainly was not a "party school." There were plenty of Co-op opportunities for engineers and plenty of opportunities for graduates.

As far as the atmosphere, the campus has expanded and experience may be a lot nicer today when I worked there (in the 90s), but it certainly was not then. I expect it has improved some due to the massive urban renewal in that area of Atlanta after the 1996 Olympics where it was Olympic village and fences/security were installed (Assuming they are still there). Also, a couple of the worst tenement housing projects were leveled for UGA dormitories (skyscrapers) at that time. When I worked there, it was in the middle of a ghetto and surrounded by housing projects and bordered by the interstate on one side. The homeless and drug dealers wandered the campus. Rapes and robberies were not uncommon. Movement on parts of campus after dark was considered "asking for it." Homeless people broke into my office more than once and slept there when it was cold. I had to deal with panhandlers daily and criminals attempted to mug me more than once. There was almost no parking or local (off campus) restaurants nearby). It is still in the middle of a large urban center with accompanying crime, parking, and traffic problems. If you compare it to Auburn/UGA or another school I worked at in GA and the difference in atmosphere was day and night. Auburn had cows grazing on campus and traffic was almost nonexistent.

This kind of baffles me, as it has little to no relationship to my experience there in the same era as a student. Perhaps you came from a different frame of reference. (I grew up in Caracas and Atlanta, and have never lived in even a semi-rural area.) I certainly wouldn't call Midtown Atlanta in the '90s a "ghetto" and I went wherever I needed to whenever I needed to on campus without worry or incident. I then moved to Detroit for art school, and midtown Detroit in the late '90s was no one's idea of thriving, but even that was safe.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by berettafan

Thanks, that is good advice.

Really do appreciate all the input here from industry folks and people who are just older and wiser with more experience sending kids through college.

CP, Otter and others are on the mark.

I will tell you this, they must learn the design and visualization tools employers expect...that and they need to learn manufacturing so that their designs can actually be tooled, manufactured, assembled and supported.

I am not an engineer but have managed very large aerospace programs. The most valuable aspect in any engineering discipline is the ability to understand the project (listen), the roll your discipline plays (listen), and the ability to communicate, visually and in front of people...prove you were listening and make a cogent argument for or against what you heard, with solutions.

My 2 centavos.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by red-beard

It is hard to get a "bad" engineering degree. But he better plan on hitting the books because it is one of the more difficult degrees.

Engineering school deans would probably be unanimous on this: Engineering should be a five-year degree. In my college experience about a thousand years ago: It was the engineering students who ate lunch with an open text and a pencil in one hand.

[matthewb0051]

My kid is in engineering dept at Texas A&M. Loves it. Someone has donated some serious money to that school. All of the engineering buildings are new and huge.

As for Virginia Tech. If this matters to you and your kid: I believe after 1st year, students are not guaranteed to live on campus as there is simply not enough housing. They have a lottery for upper classmen.

https://housing.vt.edu/contracts/apply/returning_undergrads.html

[otto_kretschmer]

I doubt there is any difference for undergrad. At everyone you will get a degree and then you have to either go get a job or keep going in a masters or phd program.

[berettafan]

How often do ME or AE grads go on to a masters program? And is it done while working with employer support for cost?

[aschen]

My MSME was paid for by a research assistance ship, basically up to the thesis advisor to get funding for the student. Most of the thesis students were supported this way in the ye oldened days (early 2000s)

Industry supported thesis students generally were funded this way as well.


For non thesis the student can pay their way by being a teachers assistant or by educational assistance from employer

[3rd_gear_Ted]

Cal Tech & JPL is run by a bunch of old hippies. Long grey ponytail is the standard hair style for the academic folks there.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by berettafan

How often do ME or AE grads go on to a masters program? And is it done while working with employer support for cost?

Again, I am not an engineer but I have managed hundreds, all disciplines.

I would not worry about a masters program until he works for a few years...let the employer help. We do, even at our small size.

Also, and I mean this sincerely, have him take management courses AFTER he graduates and is working. Online stuff.

I recommend Production Management, Risk Management and Project Management and Planning courses to start.

Learn how to plan and manage a project...he should begin to know what his project manager boss is thinking before he gets an advanced degree in engineering.

In the Navy I became an Aerospace Engineering Duty Officer (AEDO) after three fleet tours. I know. At least I could spell engineering.

I did a tour as a "Detailer" of other AEDO's and really pushed hard on those with hard engineering undergraduate degrees to get an MBA, Systems Engineering Degree or something related to management rather than an masters in engineering.

Unless you are truly gifted, rare, at a certain point the leap to running heavy engineering projects is a natural progression.

This is years away, of course: Just don't worry about a masters degree now. He has a lot of work to do before that.

Congratulations, btw.

[cockerpunk]

unless you are planning on teaching, a phd is engineering is pretty worthless. a masters isnt super important either, experience is far more important to employers. but it depends on where you want your career to go.

the track from engineering into management is well documented, and sad really. by and large i think engineers make poor managers. i mean the world is ripe with poor management in general as most managers are about as bad at management as engineers are. MBAs are worth a lot of money with an engineering degree, but mostly the paper itself, MBAs in my experience are nonsense. worth a lot of money, but not because you are any better at business than anyone else.

just get the BSME, and let your career and interests take you.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

unless you are planning on teaching, a phd is engineering is pretty worthless. a masters isnt super important either, experience is far more important to employers. but it depends on where you want your career to go.

the track from engineering into management is well documented, and sad really. by and large i think engineers make poor managers. i mean the world is ripe with poor management in general as most managers are about as bad at management as engineers are. MBAs are worth a lot of money with an engineering degree, but mostly the paper itself, MBAs in my experience are nonsense. worth a lot of money, but not because you are any better at business than anyone else.

just get the BSME, and let your career and interests take you.

^^^^ This. Particularly that very last sentence .

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

...a masters isnt super important either, experience is far more important to employers. but it depends on where you want your career to go.

the track from engineering into management is well documented, and sad really. by and large i think engineers make poor managers. i mean the world is ripe with poor management in general as most managers are about as bad at management as engineers are. MBAs are worth a lot of money with an engineering degree, but mostly the paper itself, MBAs in my experience are nonsense.

just get the BSME, and let your career and interests take you.

Perfect.

The key is get your feet wet and then figure it out.

My Father, two Masters degrees from MIT, one in Civil Engineering, one in Nuclear Physics, always lamented the disconnect between talented engineers that has no aptitude for management.

He did and was very successful and did his best to help bridge the divide.

I am the exact opposite. I had zero interest in any engineering discipline, you could not make me do it.

But I had an an aptitude for management of complex programs and learned enough about whom to trust in engineering to be successful.

My partner is a brilliant Aero Engineer. MS from Standford, the works. While he can build a project plan to great, accurate detail, knows all about project management, he just can't do it. It bores him and it shows.

We work well together.

Again, BF, great problem to have, congratulations. He has a great challenge ahead.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Perfect.

The key is get your feet wet and then figure it out.

My Father, two Masters degrees from MIT, one in Civil Engineering, one in Nuclear Physics, always lamented the disconnect between talented engineers that has no aptitude for management.

He did and was very successful and did his best to help bridge the divide.

I am the exact opposite. I had zero interest in any engineering discipline, you could not make me do it.

But I had an an aptitude for management of complex programs and learned enough about whom to trust in engineering to be successful.

My partner is a brilliant Aero Engineer. MS from Standford, the works. While he can build a project plan to great, accurate detail, knows all about project management, he just can't do it. It bores him and it shows.

We work well together.

Again, BF, great problem to have, congratulations. He has a great challenge ahead.

it turns out being a good manager is its own full skillset. being a manager of a technical advancement program, or worse yet, a program requiring invention, is even harder. when you find a good one, oh boy is it good.

ive been contemplating a move to management instead of research like i do now. i fortunately work for a company that has a VP level technical job, so there is no point at which id be forced into a management job. i could stay technical my entire career. but ultimately my frustration with poor management has lead me to be VERY good at managing up, and i see programs fail for so many reasons that arnt engineering or technical. most programs fail because of human problems, not technical ones. and so that has lead my brain to spending more and more time on humans rather than machines.