My son was 8 when these photos were taken…

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These are not big cars. You can see the passenger seat in the last photo…

That was a heck of a car. I think it was based on the Dino 206 but had a little baby flat 12 in the back. I liked the looks of the Dino 206 better but…

I think Porsche also stuffed a flat eight in the back of a 910 chassis for hill climbs. Pretty sure they still have that car in the factory museum/garage.

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From my dad (Jim Torres): in the second picture one can see the boost knob, right of the steering wheel, exact one used on all the 934,935 and 962's as well as the 917-10 and 917-30, in the other image you can see some of the turbo plumbing and a glimpse of the wastegate. These pics are when it was owned by the previous owner getting ready for Porsche's 50th anniversary I hope this helps, the guy in the one picture is my dads engine man Kevin Celestine who has been doing our race engines for over three decades. Alain

Probably too late as I am just reading this now, but interested in the 917-30 press kit. I think I can marry it up with the actual car. It lives nearby and I know the owner.

Two words. Boost enrichment.

Here’s a photo of a 935 engine. Note the hoses going from the intake plenum to the wastegate and also the fuel injection pump.

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Now, here’s a photo of a 917/30 engine. Look at the top of the pump, to the right of where the injector lines attach.


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One interesting little factoid about these engines is that if
you plumb the line going to the fuel injection pump above the throttle butterflies, when you shut the throttle you get an enriched fuel mixture for the engine, which helps it run cooler. That’s also what causes the flames that you’ll see out the exhaust on a closed throttle.


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Agreed.

I thought it was really awful to leave out the great Hans Mezger. And Norbert Singer, who was credited by several sources to have contributed to the 917's dominance.

And then the Can Am series cars were only mentioned in a dismissive way at the end. No mention of the 917-10, 917-30 and the turbo charged era. In typical Porsche engineering fashion, they kept pushing the concept to the maximum. But the 917 didn't just "live on". It was developed relentlessly in later series. I think Mark Donohue's book "The Unfair Advantage" covers this era rather well.

I think the most interesting part of the story would be how the 917 racing program would almost bankrupt the small Porsche company. Perhaps that is why they did not run them as works cars? I forget now, but it might have been Peter Morgan in his book "Porsche 917, the Winning Formula" who suggested that VW secretely contributed funds to aid in "research" about air cooling as a way to help Porsche fund the 917 effort.

Piech was pretty focused on moving Porsche into the big leagues, until Ferry figured out he couldn’t afford to do everything Piech wanted to do….

Big changes at Porsche in 1972…

1973 ushered in a more pedestrian race car, one that was much cheaper, and also one they could build and sell to lots of people.

Thinking about it some more, it might have been Karl Ludvigsen who penned that VW helped Porsche with the engine development money.

Piech was a fascinating guy. If not for his strong will, who knows where Porsche would be. Also, the Salzburg team was owned by Ferdinand Piech's mom's Porsche dealership. You have to wonder if Ferdinand was on the pit wall as well. It would be interesting to know more about her involvement in Porsche from the post WWII era to the 1970s Le Mans win.

thanks !




yeah i know of boost enrichment, but we are talking variable boost here.

I know the pump was hacked so they used the barometric adjustment as boost enrichment.
But I wasn't aware they had cockpit control of the actual boost as well.
I figured boost control was something of the later electronic age..

^ I thought Bosch manufactured a totally new pump for the turbo 917, which they called the "happy pump"?

I'de have to look up the book again, but from what I remember they had hacked the pump's barometric control and used that for boost adjustment. You can actually see it in the picture above
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That's a pretty standard looking pump frontend housing (the pump section is obviously double size for twice the lines) but no barometer on top
Pretty Sure Bosch was involved for all of that stuff as it was live R&D for everybody.. And perhaps that happy pump just meant they finally found the right tune , the right internal cam and settings ?

Anyone who has MFI knows what it means to have a happy pump, and unfortunately what it means when the pump isn't happy for your engine.

All of the turbo cars had adjustable boost.

The “happy” pump was just one that made Donohue happy when they arrived at settings that worked for him, when they were trying to make the turbo 917 engines driveable. The early attempts were less than successful. Initially, they did not map the correct fuel settings at every RPM and throttle position. That seems like a pretty basic idea now and it was the part throttle drivability that he was after.

Not to mention Audi - quattro was a far more significant car than the 917. Not only did its all-wheel drive/turbo format revolutionize rally racing, it is the great grandfather of every AWD road car to this day. quattro would not have happened without Piech. :cool:


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I didn't know that :cool:

There’s an argument to be made that Piech is the most consequential automotive executive of his generation. He’s made the VW Audi brand into some thing of a powerhouse.

Now these guys.... Omg

https://youtu.be/Wxhmrvxnbjw

meh replicrap makes baby jezus cry

I think it was Jorg Bensinger, an Audi engineer who tested their AWD Iltis off-road vehicle who originally came up with the idea in 1976/77 But it was Piech who envisioned it as a way to turn Audi from a maker of semi-crappy economy cars nobody cared about to a company that would put AWD in everything they make and compete with M-B and BMW. Piech knew the way to do that was via rally racing.




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Good thing you can buy the real thing then isn't it...? Us mere mortals can still have appreciation for labors of dedication and love such as this...

I’m not a big fan of replica 917’s, simply because you can’t really duplicate the motor. There was a guy in Germany, I think, making pretty accurate replicas of the 910 a few years ago, those were worth what it took to get one.

They're going to build the motor, it was an enjoyable 20 or so minutes to see their dedication and craftsmanship... Not to many machines out there will inspire that level of commitment and follow through.
It's not as if they made a kelmark gt.

Might not be a real 917 but it certainly isn't crap

Looks like an extremely well designed, engineered and built replica to me

Personally I'd prefer a 907 or 910 replica as they just look beautiful

Or even a 908...or 906...

I believe you are correct, but the "happy" was because it made the Bosch engineers and Porsche happy. They called it that. At least as I remember it, being 11 years old reading Donohue's book after discovering it in the county library. The 917 titanium wheel on the book's cover stood out to me, and I knew what Porsche was. The book is what made me a Porsche enthusiast.

Its not my fault that baby jezus is a crybaby about replicrap.
All them people with fake rolexes and gucci bags. Because they cant afford the real thing. This is no different. Its just a higher quality pontiac fieroerrari.
Baby jezus told me in a dream. So it must be true
Amazing fabrication skills. Would be better off on a real car

He should make the wheels available for other cars. I think that might be a better business model. Or brake kits, etc.

Or a 935. Building a 935 is on my bucket list and I still have 3 chassis that I could do this with (not the ones in my signature). I’m thinking going sacrilege with an LS engine however…

I watched another one of that guys videos where he met with Richard King (also in Essex) who has built a 68 911 and got it down to 620 kgs. 1367 lbs… he thinks he can take out another 30 kgs (66 lbs).

There isn’t much structure there and there are no creature comforts. I know our 73 911 chump car was pretty flexible (the metal was so thin) and the in car track footage really showed the chassis flex, his car has to be even more bendy.

They called it that because it was the pump that finally made Donahue happy with the drivability of the car. They set it aside and used it to calibrate all the other pumps they used on the cars.

A couple worthwhile reads:

History of Donohue’s Porsche 917/10 Turbo – Dean’s Garage

Start at page 72 on this one:

https://porschecarshistory.com/wp-content/old/lib/magazines/911C/2019/2019-07-08.pdf

There was a bit of tension between the Americans and the Germans when they were developing that car. Donahue and Flegl didn’t initially see eye to eye…. They worked through it but there were some difficult moments. The Porsche engineers were sometimes reluctant to do what Donahue suggested. Turns out he was right but they had the typical German temperament…

This recreation was at Daytona at the November HSR weekend.

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They say the last time someone mentions your name is when you actually die.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/656452-my-barn-find-porsche-917-a.html

got Wingrove's book on an ebay search alert for 140 shipped out of Deutschland.. !!
Patience pays of !

Hope you enjoy it as much as I did, easily the best racing car book I've read :cool:

Recently on BaT. Very well done, and I'd say, sold relatively cheap.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1967-porsche-910-2/


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I've seen 2 917's in my life. I like the 908 better.

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908 is my favorite race car

906 is my favorite race car you could legitimately drive on the street.

Porsche 909 Bergspyder is my most favorite :cool:

The 909 uber-lightweight DNA is in both the 917 and 908