Colt 1911 mystery part
 

I need some help from our resident spoon experts.
Yesterday I decided to disassemble my 1911 completely. (Gold Cup National Match series 80)
I just bought an acoustic cleaner and I wanted to test it out.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1650885773.jpg

So the disassembly went smoothly. Without a lot of prior research I removed the slide and then proceeded with removing pins and parts from the frame.
All went pretty well and I placed the naked frame in the cleaning basket.
After half an hour of cleaning I took the frame out and started drying it with a cloth. (lesson learned: clean the part as good as you can before putting it in the cleaner. The amount of dirt of the frame was incredible, turning the cleaning liquid black in about five minutes.)
During drying, all of a sudden a small washer falls in my hand. It had to come from inside the frame. But, looking at the parts diagram I cannot find the damn thing anywhere. A mystery part.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1650885838.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1650885966.jpg

Do any of you guys know where this washer came from? It is a little less than 6mm in diameter (just under ¼ inch)
I want to make sure I put the gun back together as it should be.


Also I noticed the lack of a firing pin safety dowel (items 10 and 33 on the schematic)
After some reading I know that this is not uncommon. People have removed them because it supposedly makes for a little less trigger feel or something? All I know the trigger was pretty nice and crisp before I took it apart.
Should I order new parts and install them as Colt intended? After all it is a safety feature.
Reading on the net show both pro and con.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1650885896.jpg

The washer looks like it might be from one of the grip panel screws.

It's your choice to add the firing pin plunger and spring back in. The older models did not have those. It will probably affect your trigger feel if you do add it.

No safety? :eek:

Manual safety is just fine.
Safety plunger was added with series 80 and, from what I have read, would prevent an AD during fall or impact.
Series 70 does not even have this plunger.
Omitting it is like a backdate, I guess.

I have no problem reinstalling it, provided it does not mess up the trigger crispness.
Or when it is absolutely unsafe to shoot it without the firing pin plunger, which I believe might not be the case here.

I don't know where the washer goes, but when I use the ultrasonic, I use water in the tank and then fill a small plastic vessel (I use an old tupperware) with the cleaning solution.

Put just enough water in the main tank that the second vessel containing the part and solution just barely floats.

You'll use a fraction of the amount of cleaning soulution.

Do you know the history of this pistol? If not, it's possible that someone was attempting to fit a part that does not fit. That little washer is definitely not a standard part on a 1911. Could it have been hiding in your parts washer from a previous project? I've never run across it, and I've taken apart a 1911 or two. Neither Kunhausen's, nor Brown's, nor Wilson's books on the 1911 show it, nor do anyone's parts diagrams.

As far as that Series 80 firing pin block, it was the proverbial "answer to the question nobody asked". The 1911 has what is known as an "inertial firing pin". Essentially, it's too short. With the hammer at rest, the nose of the firing pin rests just below flush in the breach face. In other words, it does not protrude to make contact with the primer. So how in the hell can it fire if the firing pin doesn't reach?

Simple - inertia. The hammer smacks it hard enough to propel it forward against the firing pin spring's pressure so it can hit the primer. It works great. This way, with the hammer at rest, you can smack the hammer all you want and the gun will not fire, so it's safe to carry with a chambered round. Unlike the old Single Action Army revolver, whose firing pin, with the hammer at rest, rests on the primer. That's why we carry those with the chamber empty that lines up with the hammer.

There is only one problem with this inertia idea. What happens if we drop our 1911 and it lands on the muzzle? The firing pin will move forward - it has no idea what invoked its movement, a blow from the hammer or the fact that the rest of the gun got dropped and suddenly stopped. Its inertia will carry it forward either way.

Now I will defy anyone to drop a 1911 and have it actually land on its muzzle. Impossible. Their balance is such that they simply will not do that. But, well, someone thought it could, and was suitably horrified at the thought. Hence the Series 80 firing pin block which positively locks the firing pin against any forward movement unless the trigger is pulled. Whew - we're all much safer now...

The 1911 actually has three safeties. The grip safety, which has to be depressed by gripping the pistol in a firing position before the trigger can be pulled. The thumb safety, which has to be lowered from its "safe" position before the trigger can be pulled. And, finally, the guy who is carrying it.

So, I can't tell you to just put it back together and forget about it. I can, however, tell you that I know some people who know some people who do this regularly. Reckless and irresponsible, I know. But I'm told it does improve the trigger pull pretty dramatically in many cases. Maybe I'll try it myself some day... ;)

Kinda looks like a shim that would have been placed around the grip bushing.

This might have been needed is the grips were worn or thin, and the screw was bottoming out before the grips were tight.

Hoot knows where is safety is !

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Has it got an aftermarket magazine release (extended mag release) button? This may be part of that.

Got any pics of the setup? I'm having a hard time visualizing what you mean. But it sounds interesting. I use a 5% solution, 1.9 litre water, 100ml cleaning solution.

Jeff,
No history on the gun. My father bought it from a member at the range who was selling his collection due to old age.
My dad never shot it very much and he certainly did not take it apart. Since his passing his collection fell under my care. (shooting and hunting was something we did together)
I think I am the first one to strip the 1911 bare in a long time.
The little washer might be a shim for the grips, sounds plausible. I will try to find out where it came from. But since it is not a standard 1911 part, I will leave it if I do not find the exact spot it came from.
AFAIK it is still the stock magazine release.

For reassembly I think Youtube will need to guide me. It looks a lot harder to put back together than the other way around.
But first I will give my ultrasonic cleaner a good run for it's money. :)
Any drawbacks on using dry lube on the internal parts (like firing pin mechanism)? I don't want to oil the internals too much and get dirt stuck in hard to reach places.
For other parts I normally use WD40. (*)

Also, is this a spoon one would customise? It's a stainless piece but with a few marks and scratches here and there. Not too bad actually, but I've been thinking of going full polish or a ceracote finish.
I reckon it is not a collectible piece so no biggie, right?



(*) EDIT: seems WD-40 is not a good gun lube... I'll see if I can source something more suitable.

It's slightly collectable. If I owned it I wouldn't polish or cerakote it, I'd just enjoy it as it is.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1650985050.jpg

So do you clean the part in 100% solvent and just the rest of the water oustide the cup) for vibration propagation?

Yep. Less mess and less waste.

I think if that little washer were somehow connected to the grip screws or escutcheons, there should be some multiple of four of them. I'm betting it's a stray from something else, even if it found its way into the gun before you acquired it.

My favorite gun oil is Mobil 1 5W-20. You can get a whole quart for less than what you would pay for an ounce of some fancy "gun oil" that probably doesn't work as well anyway. And yes, absolutely lube all of those internal parts before reassembly.

A Series 80 Gold Cup, while a really nice firearm, is anything but "collectable". Do what you like with it. They are literally "a dime a dozen" and hold no interest with Colt collectors. As a matter of fact, the Series 80 is held in the same high esteem amongst Colt collectors as mid-year 911's are seen in our circles. A blank canvas upon which you can let your imagination run wild. No one will get upset with you.

Damn, tiny tiny depressor spring did a houdini on me.
Jumped out and simply vanished…
No 47 in the schematic on the first pic.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1651059026.jpg

I was following an instruction video on the tube-site. That guy had a different type of depressor than I have. It,was pretty straightforward to determine how it fits together except for the vanishing act of the springything…
Next step is getting a new one (or two or three, just in case)

I used dry lube (from wd40) so far. Should I use some actual oil too? I don’t want to gunk up the internals but everything has to be well lubricated of course.
Ordered two cans of balistol and a bunch of pipecleaners.
I’m having a blast fiddling with this Colt, and I am learning every step!
My next project will be the 92fs. It needs some tlc as well.

Rats... that kinda sucks about the spring. One trick I learned when assembling little things with little springs is to do it inside a clear plastic bag, like a gallon sized zip lock baggie. It makes it much harder for the little pieces to plan and execute their dastardly escape.

I'm no fan of dry lubes on firearms. I'm no fan of gunned up internals, either, which is why I quit using dedicated "gun oils" many years ago. Every last one I ever tried eventually dried and gummed up whatever it was in. Mobil 1 just doesn't do that. I have firearms last used, cleaned, and lubricated with Mobil 1 so long ago I'm too embarrassed to say just how long, but trust me, it's an awfully long time, and they just don't gum up.

I use Ballistol by the quart, but like WD40, I do not consider it to be a "lubricant" per se (nor a bore cleaner, for that matter). In a pinch (like in a German trench in The Great War), sure, but we have much, much better lubricants/cleaners today. I use it mainly as a stock "refresher" and an anti-rust coating on carbon steel guns. Works great as the last step in cleaning black powder guns, left in the bore to keep them from rusting. Easy to remove when it's time to shoot them again. But boy does that stuff stink - I actually kinda like the smell of most gun solvents and oils (well, maybe not Sweets 7.62 either), but Ballistol is just rank.

Break-free CLP. Not a dedicated lube but a great all around cleaner lube

Just ordered new springy.
Along with some dummy cartridges, teflon trigger-sear shims to reduce friction and a new recoil buffer since the last one has completely desintegrated.
I resisted the urge to buy a tuning spring kit because I don’t want to buy without the proper knowledge or even knowing whether the current springs are still ok or not.
Waiting for parts to arrive… pfff

On my way home I’ll pick up a bottle of mobil 1 5w20.
Plastic bag is a good idea too, wish I knew that yesterday ��


Stock refresher? On wooden stocks?
I have a few double barrels with a wooden stock that are very dear to me and I want to keep them nice and healthy.

Couple of things for these kinds of guns...

I used to use a lot of Break Free CLP. Wonderful stuff on guns that see frequent use and cleaning. It does, however, harden and gum up over time. Granted, really long time, but I wouldn't use it on the "nightstand gun" that is forgotten about until needed. I've had it render guns stored for extended periods non-functional, with their little parts too gummed up to operate correctly.

I would never use a recoil buffer in any 1911 for any purpose. You just found out why - they tend to disintegrate. Imagine having one all dried out and disintegrated in there when you really need it. Another "answer to the question nobody ever asked". Seems intuitively like a good idea, but these things just don't batter themselves in the manner the buffer is meant to protect anyway.

And yes, Ballistol on wooden stocks. Won't do a thing on stocks with modern "plastic" finishes applied, but does wonders on oiled wooden stocks. It's some kind of a mineral oil, formulated by a German chemist in answer to a request from his government during The Great War. It was issued to German soldiers for use on wooden rifle stocks, carbon steel rifle and pistol actions, and leather items like boots and slings as a water proofing agent. Remains to this day one of the best things we can apply to any of those things.

What do you call "a long time"? None of my firearms sit for more than 3-5 months before being shot and cleaned again.

Way, way longer than that. It can take me years to cycle through my less used firearms. If you are cleaning them and re-applying whatever lube you like every 3-5 months you can get away with just about any decent lube.

OK, so what would you say is the 'shelf life' for CLP between cleanings?

Sidebar.
 

I never knew just what Dick Simon was advertising on the sides of his IndyCar until I started reading these gun threads a couple of years ago.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.


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Darn good question, but I'm afraid I have no idea. I wonder if anyone has ever tested this attribute of the more popular "gun oils". I think it's important information. Lots of guns get cleaned, lubed, stuck in a nightstand, then left there for years. Then they are all gummed up when needed...

My own experience has been with a number of match and hunting rifles that had fallen into disuse. The kinds of matches being fired with a specific class of rifle dried up around here. I found myself too busy with my career to take some of the hunting trips I used to take that required a certain kind of hunting rifle. So, it was years. Maybe a decade... But, then again, who knows how far into it they reached that point? We're talking sears that would not engage, stuff like that, until they received a thorough cleaning.

That is why I have a trusty old revolver under my bed. I have complete confidence it will go boom when the trigger is pulled, even when my heart rate is 140 and I am amped up with adrenaline and not thinking clearly with a bad guy in the house.

Great minds think alike, Glen. I love 1911's and shoot them a good deal, carry them often, but the one that sits "on standby" within middle of the night reach will always be a double action revolver. In the context of this discussion, even if they get a bit "gooey", all we do is pull the trigger a little harder. Yeah, maybe the bolt won't pop all the way up or something, but it will still go "bang".

Which is actually a non-issue for me anyway, since I absolutely make it a point to keep "that" gun "in the rotation" and shoot and practice with it regularly. I just know a lot of folks don't, putting them in the drawer and leaving them for years untouched.

I have to say, I'll never forget the feeling when I pulled a couple of my old go-to hunting rifles from the safe after I once again felt I had time to put them to their intended use. The feeling when they would not engage their sears and stay cocked, and when the firing pins didn't fall with enough authority to detonate primers. Kind of a cold chill, really... Thank God I clean and check all firearms before (as well as after) I go hunting. Especially the kinds of critters I hunted with those rifles. Some of them have the tendency to get pretty mad at us at times...

Yesterday I got put the 1911 back together. Thoroughly cleaned and properly lubed.
Haven't shot it yet but so everything seems to be working. Very rewarding feeling :)

I even found out where the little mystery washer went. (not 100% sure but almost)
When the previous owner deleted the firing pin plunger he also left out the plunger lever (part 31 on the schematic)
The small washer was used to fill the gap.
I found some a part online that replaces the trigger bar lever and the plunger lever. and will change the washer for a this dedicated replacement.

https://colt1911.eu/epages/15e1c7b8-0092-45c9-9770-6fdb9bf09028.sf/en_GB/?ViewObjectPath=%2FShops%2F15e1c7b8-0092-45c9-9770-6fdb9bf09028%2FProducts%2Fn50-S80-entfernt

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1651224137.jpg

Next up the 92fs. (in another thread)

Nicely done! ... and now you'll be able to sleep well :)

So after buying a replacement spring, did the original spring show up? Usually after I give up and get a replacement the original part shows up.

Mystery solved... awesome.

Well, I actually found the original spring and am still waiting for the replacement. :)
In a last attempt I ran a magnet through the narrow gap between the guncabinet and the wall and found the missing spring. Pure luck that’s where it ended up.
The use of a big see through plastic bag prevented any further escapes.