C & R License
 

Finally got around to applying for my Curio & Relic (C&R) license.

Anything I should know? Besides the adverse cash flow consequences?

Curious how painful or not was the process?

Also, what was cost?

$30 fee, fill out and mail application to Feds and a copy to local Chief Law Enforcement Officer (in my case, Sheriff), no photo or fingerprints needed since it is just a C&R license not a FFL. We'll see how long it takes. My CLEO has always been good with CHLs and similar, so I would think he won't object - however, there's an election for a new sheriff and I figured I'd get this app in now.

Application here
https://www.atf.gov/file/61506/download

Should have done this a long time ago, since everything I want is now spendy indeed. Still, collector spoons do seem to hold value. Hoping tabs or others will chime in if they think the collector spoon market is overheated right now.

Edit: mostly interested in WW1/2 era pistols - Mauser C96 Luger P08 Walter P38 Beretta 34/35 sort of thing.

Keep your paper log.


I've had one for a while and not have seen any atf.

I've traded a couple spoons over the years. Nothing too bad.

I get pistols (mostly but I assume rifles would be the same) awarded as part of my court appointed fees from criminal court cases. Some pretty nice judges here. First one, judge asked what brand of pistol was seized in the case, turned out to be a Glock 19. He asked me if I wanted it in addition to our meager fees, sure thing I replied quickly; I had no idea that was a thing. He said, nice pistol, would be a shame to have that destroyed. That one had a very expensive light/laser and tritium sights attached that may have cost more than the pistol.

A buddy joked that I should get an FFL. Just 5 in 2 years but family usually asks what I've gotten recently and jokes about it being my arsenal.

We have pretty lax laws about open carry and now concealed carry without license. But people still find a way to F that up and end up in court as a result.

The only way this story gets better is if Nelson Wolff was the judge.

Congrats on the license, jyl.

Nope, he isn't on the criminal bench. A female law school friend is running for his seat since he is retiring or whatever. Let's say I'm voting for the other guy.

Let's hope next seizure is a Gulfstream . . .

Interesting - I didn't know that type of license existed (not that I've looked into this heavily). How does holding this license differ from just being a private citizen and acquiring old spoons?

No back ground check. Ships spoons to your door.

Nfa items that are 50 years will be easier

Is anything over 50 yrs old considered a C&R gun? Sure would be nice to be able to snag some good pistols that way - Makarovs, 1911s, etc. shipped to my door.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios-relics

'Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas of such firearms;"

My Springfield 1907 is definitely C&R.

I'll make the wild guess that MG-42 I've been wanting isn't gonna qualify.

It would - assuming it is in original configuration and registered as a transferrable MG. Once you get your stamp, it would ship direct to you, no FFL w/ SOT needed in the middle.


As far as what qualifies as C&R... any individual gun 50+ years old in ORIGINAL CONFIGURATION. This means no parts collections with a receiver, heavily modified stuff, etc. There is also a specific listing of guns that are C&R due to their provenance

When you look at places like Classic Firearms or most online auctions they typically state C&R eligible on the item description.

Edit: Classic Firearms actually has a tab on website devoted specifically to C&R

It does.


Mg3. No



Funny thing. As we get closer to 50 years of the nfa ban. All registered will be transferable....



It actually makes an interesting argument though. Does it have to be on the nfa to qualify as c&r

The problem is they're getting expensive now.

100-200$ guns are 500+



I snagged a whole lot of makarovs. But took ordering 5 to get a nos example.

I got an E. German Mak for $250 in a gas station parking lot deal a few yrs ago and regret selling it, but I doubled my money. Really want an MP-40 and MG-42, but I like my car more for that kind of money.

Almost bit on a mp40.
Stamped steel and everything else was the limiting factor for me. Can get better quality for same cash. You will also become the guy everyone talks to at the range. Attention that i don't care for.

Forced r3set are more fun.

I have continuously held a Federal license since 1985, and a CR where I live for 19 years..

You have to keep a log book of all your acquisitions and disposals with a license...there is no fast and loose with the FED's. they frown on it bigly. FFL's have gotten in trouble with the ATF for having people use the state abbreviation on the forms instead of the required spelling it out..some have even lost their licenses and had to close their business. Another thing is that the ATf can come and inspect your business premises anytime they like without a warrant.

In CA with a CR you still have to have the spoon sent to an FFL where you pick it up. You have to check about your state laws.

Where I live every FFL transfer has to pay sales tax. Ain't that a convenient way to generate tax revenue.

A CR is NOT a license to buy and sell spoons..it is to facilitate a collector and his collecting ..where you can buy and dispose more easily. One CR here in town was buying and selling quite a bit the ATF got wind of it and told him to cease and desist or else.


The collectible market has been scorching hot since last fall...(2021) before that it was just hot. Milsurp has been burning up the track for a number of years...for instance a Moisin M39 arsenal refurb or "sneak" used to be 600 and now it is 1200. A Remington Russian WW1 contract Moisin in excellent condition..2400.

Lugers in particular are funny animals as the pricing lays dormant for a long while and then will double in a short bit of time. All of the German stuff is moving up...along with just about everything else. Colt Diamondbacks NIB recently used to be 1500 to 1800 now 2400 up. A CW Smith carbine SN 3 in near nu condition 8400.

As of this moment I am tracking 272 items up for live auction in various parts of the country.

Woo-hoo, received my C&R license! Took a couple months but was not difficult. Now to read through the rules and logbook, and start looking for C&R spoons.

Tabs, I like Lugers but there is so much to know and watch out for, that I will have to educate myself a lot before splashing out for a collectible at today's prices. About thirty years ago I bought a shooter Luger (mismatched), had it worked over by a gunsmith (sights, trigger), and it is a great shooting pistol. Thinking of having it modified some more.

Hey Tabs, I have a Springfield 1903. The original stock was a mess and the seller replaced it with a sporterized stock. Do you know if that violates the C&R rules since it isn't technically in its original condition?

Old Western Scrounger occasionally gets cool stuff in ...

Yup, not C&R. Get a replacement original stock and you are good to go.

Are Makarovs desirable? My buddy has one he got when his dad passed years ago. I shot it twice.... first shot missed the beer can so I figured it was a total POS :D. He prolly hasn't shot it more than I have....

It seemed like a nice gun.... but with horrible sights ;)

Guys, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don't modify vintage guns

I'm helping a young lady who inherited some WW2 1911s. 3 that if they were stock would sell around $2-2500 all will sell at $500-700ish.


California residents with a C&R can have ammo sent to their homes

I'm very accurate with a markarov.... i like the little sights. I bought a 1k case of ppu 9x18 a long time ago and have plenty still on hand without any reliability issues.

I like the polish p64 and have a couple ranging from excellent arsenal refurb to issued shooters. Usually my go to for a concealed pocket spoon.

That's why I got the 1903 for so cheap.

looking for a Beretta 418 .25 ACP, pref alloy frame. In case anyone has one kicking around.

There wasn't anything wrong with the sights on my buddy's either :D. That was about 15 years ago... he had only one box of cartridges back then... and didn't even bother to pick up more. He said he had more than he would ever need... and he's still well stocked with at least 43 remaining. Had a nice feel to it ....

Maks are great guns. I really regret selling my E. German one. I guess there are not enough C&R guns I care about enough to bother getting my license. And the E. German Maks have gotten expensive too.

The gospel on Luger's is Jan Stills 5 volume set on Luger's. Even if you don't own one it is still interesting to look through..But because of the definitive nature and being outa print the set is almost worth as much as a Luger.

The Same goes for Clawson's tome on 1911 Goverment Models...outa print and a must have if you are collecting..so $800.

I have started to read Lugerforums.

Right now, looking for a Beretta 418.

WHY???? For it's intended purpose a 22LR is more potent..and cheaper to fuel.

U might check out a mdl 34..in 38 Corto

For the 007 thing, of course.

A 1934 will be right behind . . .