Youtube Video of Ratting
 

Kind of a random question for those who have shot rats, squirrels, and other rodents.

I somehow stumbled on a Youtube channel where a guy shoots rats and squirrels with air rifles, often using bait and night vision scopes. Lot of super slo-mo video of pellet in flight, impact, eyeballs blowing out, blood spurting, etc. He always takes head shots, and I'm impressed at the accuracy. On the other hand, it feels like watching killing porn.

So I was interested in how quickly a head shot actually kills a rat. Looks like the rats often don't die right away, they struggle, thrash around, throw themselves around, sometimes even run out of sight. This seems to happen more with the shots that are aimed at the side of the head or base of neck (broadside shot). The shots that are aimed at the front of the head (aimed "right between the eyes") seem to usually result in the rat immediately falling over and laying inert.

The squirrels seem to usually be shot at a bait station, head on, and seem to succumb pretty much instantly. I don't really understand the point of baiting and shooting squirrels, which I don't think of as vermin that need to be eradicated like rats can be, but oh well.

So, is what I described with the rats consistent with your experience? Is it correct that even if you get clean head shots, the rodent often doesn't die right away?

I don't have any experience. My grandfather used to keep the squirrels out of his pecan tree with a pellet gun, but I wasn't around enough to know what to expect.

Yes, there are folks that consider squirrels to be "rats with fluffy tails" (not my grandfather, he just didn't want them eating his nuts).

I have to think that the immediate kills are based to destruction of the brain/spine. I believe the only way to immediately kill something is by destroying the brain (probably especially the part closest to the spine and/or severing the spine near the brain.

I think to confirm that with evidence would require necropsy which I don't imagine happens much.

A friend of mine had rats in his back yard years ago, inner city Chicago. They would come out as the sun was setting. We went and bought a pellet gun that actually required a F.O.I.D. to purchase. The guy said anything over 1000 feet per second required a gun card in Illinois. Most of the rats that we shot died right away. A lot of times the pellet would go right through them.

Mr. Higgins shoots them in his back yard. High powered air rifle, I think. The story about the dog swallowing a whole dead rat is pretty funny.

Usually a hollow point in the head will have immediate effect. I found that target rounds, or solid shot will go right through, and yeah sometimes they run around a bit.

Why take a chance at missing or maiming?
I use a .410 with #4 shot. :)

The guy is in the UK. I think airguns might be more popular there than in the US, for evident reasons. Also he’s doing some of it indoors - farm buildings, livestock around, etc - which might be another reason he’s using pellets instead of bullets or shot.

I use a .22 PCP airgun for squirrels. They damage fruit in our orchard, oranges, avocados, figs, and have stripped a neighbor’s macadamia tree several times.

I find it’s about 50/50 with head shots. They always drop immediately, but sometimes do thrash around for 30 seconds.

A broadside body shot through shoulder area damages heart and lungs. That often requires a follow up shot… or they crawl off and die elsewhere.

I have actually found that shooting into the back of the head at the base is an instant show stopper.

While it’s sad to kill them, the Red squirrels have just exploded in population here over the last 5 years. Invasive.

Like this?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1655327189.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1655327189.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1655327189.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1655327189.jpg

Air rifle "ratting" is a big thing in the U.K. Without veering too deeply into the political aspects of U.K. gun ownership and hunting opportunity, let's just say it's pretty much all that's left to anyone other than the truly wealthy. The common man has very much been reduced to "ratting" as a way to get in any "hunting" whatsoever.

That aside, they have this down to a science. These guys spend some money on their equipment because, well - see above. This is the land of the PCP air rifle and night vision scopes.

One kind of weird restriction that does not apply to us is a legal limit on foot pounds of energy that their rifles can produce. I believe it's 12 foot pounds. That really isn't very much, and is barely sufficient for this purpose. The rifles I use, both the modified Sheridan pneumatics shown above and a variety of RWS and Weihrauch springers, all top 20 foot pounds. They all kill rats with authority, noticeably more than the PCP rifles the Brits are using.

I've had a few lengthy email exchanges with some of those guys with YouTube channels. They are well aware that the legal lack of power in their rifles is a severe handicap. That's why you see mostly head shots. Even on broadside shots, they often will not achieve full penetration through something as small as a rat. My .20's and .22's, with heavy pellets, are perfectly capable of the "Texas heart shot" (I had to explain to the Brits just what that means...). So, yeah, there is a reason for what you are seeing.

Beyond that, even when hunting big game with modern rifles, animals run off when hit. They kick and jump and roll and flop and flounder and often cry out. It's often not for the feint of heart. Animals give up their lives dearly, as we should expect. It's almost never as nice and clean as those who have never killed might expect. Rats are, of course, no different. And shooting them with underpowered (through legal restriction) rifles doesn't help.

I have a RWS Diana Mod. 48 that I only shoot ground squirrels and gophers with. The ground squirrels usually are between 30 & 120 ft., while the gophers are caught pushing dirt from a tunnel. There are plenty of animals around here happy eat the kills - buzzads, hawks, coyotes, bobcats, etc. One recent squirrel was picked up by a local hawk mere seconds after I shot it. It had to work hard to gain altitude. I think it was taking it to a nest. When I first moved here, a friend came over with an air rifle that had a scope. He killed about 15 ground squirrels in a matter of half an hour. After that, I decided an air rifle was for me. I just use the iron sights though.

I used to do Photoshop work for a company that represented the glass division of Nikon.
I cleaned up plenty of blood and crud off of images of game. Lions, pumas, water buffalo, (mule deer), any and all kinds of game.
Never had to photoshop a field mouse, but I see one or two up there that wouldn't make the catalog without some work!

Killing rats with traps really doesn’t bother me since they are already dead when I find them . My dog dug up a gopher that was terrorizing my yard the other day. The gopher was standing his ground against my dog so I crushed him(the gopher) with a large rock. I felt bad watching it die. It affected me for a while. Don’t think I could shoot anything.

You'd have had to explain it to me except I know how to google.

I could shoot a critter if I needed to, but I've been lucky to not need to shoot one.

So, yeah, in other words, they will penetrate the full length of a rat, and exit the front end when shot from the rear end. I have no trouble treating vermin in this manner. They die as a quickly as any other shot.

Kinda fraught with controversy in the big game world, though. Many consider it unethical. Yet I have hunted with guides who told me to take it on rapidly departing game. Some areas of the world are not burdened with our "ethics"...

I always go for the head shot. Not only more humane but I don't want the vermin to run off and die where I can't find and bag him. Way back in high school my buddy and I were hired to shoot ground squirrels in the delta. They were (and are) threatening the earthen levees. We were paid $2. a tail. We quickly learned to go for the head shot. A solid body shot and they could still make it down their hole. No tail, no money.

Just so you know, lead poisoning is a concern when wild animals eat animals that have been shot. There are pellets ($$) that do not contain lead.

Interesting. Thanks. I’ve only shot one animal, a skunk that I thought was rabid, anyway it was coming at my dogs and me and wouldn’t be deterred. Head shot with a Ruger Single-Six 22LR. It simply slumped to the ground and didn’t move again. So I was curious why the rats were less cooperative.

This has proven to be a rather serious problem with raptors in particular, especially in those areas in the West with large prairie dog populations that attract the hordes of varmint shooters. I'm rather surprised that lead based ammunition is still legal in these applications. Guys shoot literally thousands of these things every single day across a very wide range of the Western United States. There must be hundreds of thousands, if not millions killed every year. All with lead based ammunition. All just left there for the scavengers. Lead toxicity in those scavengers, especially the raptors, is well documented.

But to extend that concern to shooting rats in the barn, or in the back yard? I think that's a bit of a stretch. Besides, air gun pellets are extremely light for caliber anyway, and their effectiveness suffers accordingly. Making them lighter, by making them from lighter materials, only makes that worse. The typical weight for a .22 caliber pellet is, for example, only about 14 grains where a .22 long rifle bullet will be about 40 grains. This severely limits their effectiveness. Which is on purpose, really, making them far safer in populated areas, which is the intent. But there is a limit to everything. Non-toxic pellets simply drop below that limit, in this case, rendering them all but useless for actually killing nuisance vermin.

I don’t know that I knew such nice air rifles existed. Brands I’ve never heard of.

When I was a kid (about 15) we lined up cars with their headlights illuminating the dump. After a few hours of drinking alcohol we got the half a dozen .22s out and took turns shooting rats. No idea about firearms control or safety but we sure had a good time. Guessing we would shoot 100 or 200 rats in the evening.

My guess is that the rats have tiny skulls, and it's easy to not hit the skull or make a glancing blow. Your 22 probably pierced the skull and did major damage.

In many countries wherein firearms ownership is severely restricted, high end "adult" air rifles have been developed to the extreme. They are every bit the quality of high end firearms. Germany and England have been at the forefront of this for decades. Here, with unrestricted availability of firearms, they are but a curiosity. Pretty strong hobby level interest, but nowhere near that seen elsewhere. It's pretty much all they've got, so they've run with it.

What? No linky? You gonna make us go rooting around YT on our own? oof... :p

My mom had me dispatch a poor rabid cat that wandered onto their property. She was concerned for her dogs and cats, and the little guy was suffering terribly. I decided on the .22 LR with solid point in order to have the least amount of blood spatter, and I found him in a carport with gypsum walls, so there would be no ricochet. One round through the base of the skull from around 40 feet and he was instantly dead with no brain spatter. The round was buried in the wall so I left it. I wanted him to not suffer and obviously a clean area with minimal bleed out, etc. I still cleaned the area with chlorine bleach because Mom had no organic solvent. Buried the poor critter and had a little funeral service for him to wish him a better life in the next go round.

Not just the lead can be poisonous, but the animal's blood and remains can be really unsafe.

Europeans must be able to do own and shoot Olympic type target pistols and rifles, I suppose? When I watch those matches, I see plenty of French, German, other European competitors and the guns are all of European make. Come to think of it, events like biathlon are heavily European too.

Thinking of living in France at least part time, will be interesting to find out if there are target shooting clubs one can join.

Stijn would be the guy to talk to about European gun clubs and shooting opportunities. I know it is still possible in pretty much most European countries, albeit pretty expensive. Guns must be left at the club and other such restrictions apply, but it can be done. Stijn would know.

That' right. France is one of the lesser restricted countries, with many hunters actually, so should be doable to have some fun with guns. Not the level of the US but definitely better than the UK. In the UK hunting was an aristocrat snob sport mostly, with fox hunting and such, so it was easy to get people behind the anti hunting movement. We have a big fight ahead in the US but luckily most people are still indifferent to hunting and it is definitely not something elitist.

Back to the original question, if the brain stem isn't turned into mush, the animal is practically dead but still can run a bit, thrash and flop around just from neurons firing randomly like a seizure. Example would be decapitating a chicken. You let go of it, it will fly / and even run a bit. I would not immediately assume that the rats suffer if they are hit in the head and stop thrashing within 30 s, they certainly will be unconscious and most likely not feel pain.

One thing to remember is that no animal in the wild dies of old age in bed. They all usually meet their maker in the form of a predator at the latest when they get weak. Not a fun way to go!

This guy uses minks, and a pack of dogs

<iframe width="894" height="503" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vvzZLI04_is" title="Mink vs Rat THUNDERDOME!!!" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Europeans breed Rat Terriers and send the dogs in to kill the rats. It must be a European thing.