Rent Mgmt dispute

[DWBOX2000]

We hired a mgmt company to manage our out of state house. The tenant on day one locked her self out. There are two keys for two locks on front door. Tenant goes out, comes back and can only open one lock. Hires locksmith to open door. We have the ring so we can hear and watch tenant say that to locksmith she only has one key and she locked both locks. She then pays locksmith 129.00 (again,can see on ring footage). We get bill from mgmt company for 170 saying the keys she had didn’t work and they had to pay for her to get in. We gave mgmt co 3 keys (2 for door and 1 for mailbox). So either the tenant left the key when she went out or she only got one key from mgmt co. We watched the tenant tell neighbor she only had one key when waiting for locksmiths. Do we mention to Mgmt that we saw on Ring the whole transaction, let it go or something else? This is our 1st tenant and this happens within hours of her moving in. I dont mind paying but seems like mgmt is screwing us.
Suggestions? Thanks

[Arizona_928]

I would say so

[DWBOX2000]

The markup on locksmith is fine, but should I have had to pay at all?

[Baz]

Do we mention to Mgmt that we saw on Ring the whole transaction.

Yes - and explain it to them like you did here.

All you are doing here is communicating.

Something that is sorely lacking in many disputes I see happen.

Good luck!

[Arizona_928]

You see how they operate with a small issue like locks. Imagine how they operate with bad water heater or appliance....


If you're okay with a 30%ish mark up now.... that's cutting into profits later.


Not like property management isn't a dime a dozen now in days.

[look 171]

A friend warn me about management companies. He hates them and tells me they rip him of all the time.

Back to your regular programming. Call them out on this so they know you are on top of things. IMO its OK for them to make a profit but as long as they disclose it to you. If they aren't involved in calling lock smith, they don't get to mark it up on top of that since they did not do any of the work unless its spec out in their contract.

[DWBOX2000]

I don’t mind paying, it’s more do I ask why the tenant only had one key on her as she disclosed in video? Seems either mgmt only gave her one key or she only took one key with her when she went out. Why would I have to pay for that?
I’ll talk to her tomorrow but is it okay to mention the video?
Mgmt company knows the ring is there. Thanks all.

[fintstone]

It seems to me that spying on a tenant with a video camera on her door after she has taken possession of the home would open you up to a lawsuit. Did you get her permission in the lease? If not, I would delete the video and turn it off. Then I would simply address the question as to why she didn't have the proper keys.

I key every lock on my rentals to the same key. I suggest you do as well. It is hard not to lose or break a key. Having two doubles the chances. If you get the Kwikset SmartKey, they are easy (and take seconds) to rekey yourself...but even then, a big mgt company just calls a locksmith. It is your money, not theirs (And they are mangers, not handymen.

[rusnak]

I would flatly tell them that I saw the whole thing.

And then I'd inform them that they can either deal with me truthfully from now on, or they're fired.

[A930Rocket]

Why do you have two different keys for the front door? Save your self a lot of time and trouble and have one key to fit both locks.

Also, as mentioned, snooping in on the conversation with your ring camera seems creepy.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by fintstone

It seems to me that spying on a tenant with a video camera on her door after she has taken possession of the home would open you up to a lawsuit. Did you get her permission in the lease?

There are "reasonable expectations of privacy" laws on the books.
The front porch might be included in that depending on local laws

There are also 2-party audio wiretapping laws, which have been used by officers even on the highway.

Amazon hasn't been shut down by the FCC/Class-Action lawsuits/etc. Yet.
That might not apply to small landlords.

A rental lease is temporary but conditional ownership. i.e. Their property. Their video ownership.

I would disconnect your Ring access and start over.
Talk to tenant, email details and request Mngmnt cover the costs. Go from there.

[DWBOX2000]

Tenant knows Ring is there. If it was a problem, they should have rented elsewhere. Plenty of other places around. Not like mines discounted.
Agree, one key is easier than two but it’s really not that difficult to grasp. If I’m told I need two keys, shame on me for going out with one. I wouldn’t expect someone else to pay for my mistake. Same applies to mgmt co not giving all the keys or explaining the keys. That’s their job. It’s why they got a flat fee up front and a monthly commission when rented.
Anyhow, I got my answer, thanks all for the help.

[Arizona_928]

Shady af with the ring. (Knows as in saw it or expressed you watch it)... Micromanaging your rental. If you're that concerned, force tenant to hold renters insurance.


If i rented a **** box. I would put tape over the ring and let him enjoy the moaning all night.

[rusnak]

I think you guys are over-reacting to the doorbell camera. Enough people have them now that they're sort of moot. They are very very common.

The issue is not privacy. It's disclosure. If it's not in the lease agreement, then you need a lease amendment to address the disclosure. It's no different than cameras in the common areas of an apartment complex. As long as the camera is disclosed, and the leased area is not calculated to include the front porch square footage, then you're good.

[Geronimo '74]

You have access to a doorbell camera at a place where somebody else lives?
That wouldn’t fly with me if I was your tenant. It sure if it it’s even legal over here without explicit permission.
But that that’s another matter.

Mark up does not seem out or the ordinary. Although a bit steep
Depends on how much you are paying them already.
Make sure your tennant has all the keys they need. If they have enough keys, the next bill is on them, I’d say.

[look 171]

Get over the ring thing. I have a fooking camera on my building near USC. Have it there to protect my tenants from having to deal with the local up standing citizens. It is on the fringe of S. Central. Over the past few years, all low lives are now gone. Fill with students and working class folks. Quiet now.

All my rentals single family rentals have the same damn key. One key opens them all, but none of my tenants need to know that and they are far away from each other in different cities.

I honestly think the management company forget to give her the other key. People make mistakes. A new tenant will make sure she carries both keys for the first time if its a new place. Get after that and they will understand that it should happen again.

[Arizona_928]

I like your style. ^


"Security" cameras in a common area would be a turn off for me if it was a small duplex/multi unit house. Hell Cameras facing my parked car would be a no go unless i have access to it... (as it's to protect my personal property not for one to snoop on when i come n go)

That said the rental house next to my parent's house in Phoenix has Security cameras facing every direction. But I'm 100% sure they're supplementing income with some sort of traffic of randoms...


What I'm getting at. By sacrificing ones sense of freedom for Security. One has neither and your home owner is creeping on you. Let's not even discuss how unsecure the ring system is.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by rusnak

I think you guys are over-reacting to the doorbell camera. Enough people have them now that they're sort of moot. They are very very common.

The issue is not privacy. It's disclosure. If it's not in the lease agreement, then you need a lease amendment to address the disclosure. It's no different than cameras in the common areas of an apartment complex. As long as the camera is disclosed, and the leased area is not calculated to include the front porch square footage, then you're good.

If you rent out a single-family residence, you rented out the door, the front porch and the yard (unless your lease/contract indicates otherwise). If you have surveillance cameras of any kind (including ring) that are active on a rental property...my advice is to stop right now. If you have apartments/multifamily and have video camera covering common areas, you certainly should put up signs indicating that is the case...assuming you want to keep those properties (because some tenant or their guest will sure your butt off). It should also be in the lease.

While video cameras and other recording devices are common, it doesn't mean you can use them to monitor tenants on the property they have leased. Saying that they should know better because lots of people have them does not seem to be a good defense. People don't have them to allow other people monitor them. Personally, I have never seen one...and might not recognize what it is. I can't be the only one.

[Arizona_928]

Ring started out as just the door bell camera combo. You can actually speak through the device. Then they have additional security cameras. The quality of them is very good. One of my pharmd friends has them on her house just because she has kids and they can play out front(bball) and they can monitor them from inside.


I'm not sure if op is being serious or trolling.... I hope he has his rental in California. LoL!

[fintstone]

I don't know...but if not in a common area and not disclosed, I would think it would be a serious issue. Especially if there is audio capability. Maybe people are not as litigious as I believe, but the last thing I need is to be sued. You don't really have to be right to sue and win against a landlord.

Funny, but as a long-time landlord of properties in other states that are managed, I find that I really don't need/want to know too much of the daily activities/problems with tenants. That is why I pay someone to manage the properties. I don't even want to know the names of the tenants.