Circuit breaker help needed
 

My air conditioning unit wasn’t activating. I checked the breaker in the sub panel and found one side of the 50 amp breaker had no power. I ordered a new breaker and finding out that I need a deep set breaker ( that doesn’t exist in this 50/20 configuration , I took a good look at the old breaker and found that the contractor had modified the back of the breaker. Long story short, I’m going to have to move some breakers around. Any advice would be appreciated. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1658927765.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1658927765.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1658927765.jpg

Maybe ask on the Garage Journal electrical sub forum.

had a breaker brake but never seen 2 amps rates on one breaker

compressor and fan ? but 50 is a lot for a gas pump

I gotta admit, I've bought and installed a lot of breakers but I've never heard of a "deep set" breaker. That panel looks to me like the kind that would fit Square D HOM, Murray, Cutler Hammer and others with the similar blade style.

I'm not sure what you're asking for. Seems you could pop in a piggyback breaker to save yourself one space then pop the 50A two pole breaker above that. It looks like in the picture you have two spaces available yet.

Have you searched for the panel model number?

If the breakers for the panel are nla then you might be able to find them online.
Looks pretty shakey to modify a breaker to work or in this case not work in the panel. Did the same electrician install the 20/30/30/20 breaker directly across? You might find the same modification there.
You look to be a bit short on space but ordering the 50 amp two pole and a 20 amp two pole in the original configuration it will work but not sure if you have the panel space for that.
If it is a sub panel, you may want to investigate changing the panel. There were kits at the local home depot that included breakers. Being a sub panel, you could safely shut off power to it and change it out with out too much trouble.

2 poles 50 A @ 240 Vac for load power.
2 poles 20A @ 240 Vac for control power.
COMMON TRIP

^^^
I don't believe the outside 20a are setup for common trip. Based on the pic, I'd say they're definitely not common trip.

Dumb question, but could something else be causing it to repeatedly trip?
(startup capacitor or worn out or rusty fan/pump)

It’s a Westinghouse panel. The breaker is not tripping. One side of the 50 amp was powerless. After removing it and then reinstalling it I now have power to both wires. Air conditioner is now working. I really would like to put in a new breaker since the existing one was modified. It is a sub panel so maybe a full replacement is a possibility.

The panel states that Cutler/Hammer or Bryant breakers are compatible. The modified breaker is a Cutler/Hammer and Bryant is not available anymore. For a novice this is quite the conundrum!

I'm having a hard time figuring out why it was modified. Is there something that prevents the post from making with the contacts on the breaker? There are a bunch of breakers that should be compatible with that box.

Finding something like that would make me unhappy and nervous.

The slot in the plastic on the new breaker is shorter and doesn’t allow the breaker to seat flat.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1658943148.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1658943148.jpg
Lousy pictures but new breaker has smaller slots.

Here's a pic of a HOM series breaker from square D. Normally it will fit into any panel that the CH, Westinghouse, Murray, GE breakers work. I'm not seeing what necessitated a modification of the breaker in the pics. If you take the breaker out, take a picture of the posts that it snaps onto.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1658943370.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1658943370.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1658943370.jpg

If you need a measurement of the length of the slot in the HOM breaker, let me know. BTW, you can buy the HOM as a 20 50 20 with the 50 as common trip.

Wow. Don't often see that. They ran out of space in the box and used two single pole for 240 because of space. They had to modify the front to tie the 2 50s together as if the breaker popped, it would leave a live wire/side. Legal most places I think...but maybe not the best solution. It seems like you would need to find a breaker that fits that is similar functionally, replace that panel with a larger one, or create a subpanel for something in that box to make space.

If you get a chance and you're at Lowes or Home Depot, see if they have the Connecticut Electric replacement breakers. They make one similar to the HOM and Cutler Hammer but I can't see the bottom slot in any of the pics. I know Menards carries them. If I get to Menards I'll take a pic of the bottom of one if it has a longer slot than the Cutler Hammer.

To be honest, the mod in the back really is not a problem electrically...it just looks mickey mouse when pulled out. As long as the 240 breakers are tied together, it is safe if it latches onto the bar firmly.

I’m liking your answer. Home ownership…. It’s always something!!

Should see what the well pump contractor did for my high voltage panel. (Self tapping screws grounded out of the back of the panel)...

On the bright side you only have to replace the bad one. I wouldn't try to reinvent the wheel here. Do the same mod and hopefully it lasts another 30 years

Is that even..

I'd be looking at someone's hide. A big one.

When googling - I found this text from the mfr:
The BQC style breaker has a common trip as well as a rejection tab feature. These breakers are designed for use in BR type load centers and should be installed only in panel positions that have notched bus stabs that accommodate the rejection clip.

Seems to me your stabs are not notched?


https://www.dkhardware.com/br-1-50-amp-2-pole-and-2-20-amp-1-pole-bqc-common-trip-quad-circuit-breaker-bqc2502120-product-3141978.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping &utm_campaign=free_listings&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxIOXBhCr ARIsAL1QFCaDzQkNbeiDUlt0DxrAVJpbkEAkZ3CH6pEYLUfnQh TPnxqCSZtaG9EaAnrCEALw_wcB

Seems like they are notched. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1658959994.jpg
But what do I know.

Notches are probably at the bottom where double ones are supposed to go. The rejection tabs (if those have them) are to keep you from doing just what they did...put more circuits in the box than it was designed for. It is really not an unheard-of practice to do this to make them fit (as in your box). If an inspector noted it on a house sale, you might have to fix (might not meet code in some places).