My guess is that they didn't exactly want her doing her typical act carrying the precious flute. I'm not a fan of hip hop as well but millions are so the music genre doesn't mean anything. As for her fat ass, to each his or her own. There's obviously a market for her fat ass. My opinion, other than the flute being some weird historical artifact, the whole thing is not worth the effort to get in an uproar over.

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I haven’t seen an uproar yet, maybe it’s lurking just around the corner, I don’t know. I am mostly curious as to what moron at the library of Congress thought this was any sort of a good idea.

Java, you weren't the target audience. The actual target audience seems to approve of the approach that was taken.

https://twitter.com/Imposter_Edits/status/1575549255393349632?t=x5cK3pvTg1svqCs8_rMXCw&s=19

I think she can make beautiful music with this flute.

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Exactly. She can and did play something beautiful. Then, as an added bonus to her and her fans, she was able to do a little something extra at a concert. JD wasn't the target audience of the concert and neither was I. She doesn't seem to be a bad sort. In her concert, she's dressed for the target audience of the concert. The audience liked it, she's there to make money, and did.

She didn't dress the same when she played at the library of congress or where ever that was.

Folks need to relax.

She is not a pillar of health like skinny musicians from the glory days of music like Hendrix, Joplin, and Presley

cheer up

Some of you knuckleheads think some of us are taking this way more seriously than we are.

And frankly, I’m surprised that some of you endorse such a ridiculous use of an artifact from history.

Some of us aren't looking for something to sneer at 24/7.

How the Library of Congress obtained the collection. They also have a tremendous assortment of stringed instruments.
https://www.loc.gov/collections/musical-instruments-at-the-library-of-congress/about-this-collection/

In 1941, the Library received a large collection of flute and other wind instruments from Dayton C. Miller to add to its instrument collections. Dayton C. Miller, who received his doctorate in physics from Princeton University, was a consummate collector. He gave his collections of wind instruments and related items to the Library of Congress to encourage scholarly interest in the flute. He had planned to come to the Library as curator of the collection, but died suddenly on February 22, 1941. His bequest arrived at the Library three months later, on May 22, 1941.

At the time of his bequest, Miller’s collection of materials relating to the flute comprised more than 1,426 instruments (flutes and other wind instruments). Of approximately 3,000 books about music, there were more than 10,000 titles of music, as well as numerous patents, trade catalogs, news clippings, autographs, articles, correspondence files, and drawers of iconography. There also were many bronzes, ivories, statuary, and figures, all depicting flutists, fife, or pipe players.

Starting in the 1920s, Miller deliberated for many years over where his collections could find a permanent home. He considered donating his collections to the then National Museum (now the Smithsonian Institution), but had also been in touch with the Library of Congress as a reader, advisor, and potential donor.

In 1933 Miller wrote to Dr. Carleton Sprague Smith of the New York Public Library that he had catalogs of musical instruments from 50 museums. He had visited most of these museums, as well as many of the music libraries in the United States and abroad. Miller was very interested in having his collections in one location, but had not yet found a suitable home in America. He was especially impressed with the Deutsches Museum of Munich, but found that it lacked a great collection of music to supplement the instruments.

By 1934 Miller felt that his collection was too large to maintain in Cleveland. He wrote to Frances Densmore, an ethnomusicologist, that he feared that his collection would be dispersed and his efforts wasted. Finally, Miller made his decision; his will, drafted in 1939, gave his entire collection to the Library. He further stipulated that his collections be preserved intact as a whole, and not subdivided, so as to illustrate directly the history of the flute.

Recent instrument additions to the Miller collections include an early 20th-century silver Boehm system flute by William Meinell, New York, with its original case; and a pair of silver clarinets (A- and B-flat) by William S. Haynes, Boston, with original case. Robert Sheldon, former instrument curator at the Library of Congress, donated to the Miller collections an important early clarinet in A-flat, by Jakob Anthony of Philadelphia (DCM 1662). Two additional Anthony instruments (a concert flute and a walking stick flute) also are preserved in the Miller collections.

So I ran across an article today. Somebody I’ve never heard of drove Enzo Ferrari’s personal P2/3 Spyder the other day.

First, I didn’t know Ferrari had a model called the P 2/3 let alone a Spyder. I’ve never heard of a car called a Spyder, but I’m not a car guy. It turns out the Ford Foundation owns the car and further reading told me that they own the worlds largest Ferrari collection. Who knew?

So I figured this person was a famous driver and googled his name. Turns out, he’s a drummer in a rock band. Well, maybe he drives race cars on the side. So I watched a brief clip of his burnout on the Champs d’Elysee and it doesn’t appear that he’s a driver. At least not a good one, judging from that brief performance. I could have driven that well with five minutes of practice. Maybe not even that much. It was literally, almost nothing.

So then I’m wondering why he bothered to drive this car, because he’s apparently not any sort of car driver and it has nothing to do with his music. Next question was, why on earth would the Ford Foundation loan him this car for this stupid little stunt? I would imagine that, apart from its extreme rarity and historical interest, it’s also probably pretty damn fragile.

At the conclusion of his few seconds of driving, he commented:

“Crikey, I just did a burnout on the Champs d’Elysee driving Enzo’s personal P 2/3 Spyder from the 1960’s.”

How did we get here to this place, that I clearly do not understand?

Google “Nick Mason drummer” and you come up with endless mindless music from a band called “Pink Floyd” - what is that, some sort of homosexual slang?

You literally started a thread about it. Obviously it bothers you. You were completely wrong about her being qualified to play the instrument. You said you'd rather see any number of more classically trained musicians play the instrument. You talked about her "Shaking her fat ass" while playing the instrument. Criticism of Lizzo for playing the flute is in bad form. She's as "Deserving" as anyone else. It just so happens that Madison was a slave owner and Lizzo is a black woman and for that I applaud the "Stunt."

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I'd love to get a look at that flute. The guy who made it must have been the Stradivarius of flutes. Crystal? I wonder how the key mechanisms were made. i googled it but I got 6 pages of Lizzo.

Some history on the flute. Has a "bad boy" in it's history.

https://blogs.loc.gov/loc/2018/10/the-mystery-of-james-madisons-crystal-flute/
One thing we know for certain about the flute is that Dolley Madison’s son from her first marriage, John Payne Todd, bequeathed the flute to Dr. Cornelius Boyle of Washington, D.C., in his will.

Cited as “the bad boy” in a White House Historical Association profile, Todd was known for gambling, womanizing and drinking – he was jailed several times for disturbing the peace. Yet he was also a lover of fine art, and both James and Dolley Madison helped to support him and get him out of scrapes. Apparently, at some point, one or the other bestowed the flute on Todd.

Dr. Boyle treated Todd before Todd died in 1852 at age 60, at which time he was in considerable debt. It is possible, but not certain, that Todd willed the flute to Boyle in payment for medical services

Google the maker Claude Laurent flutes. A lot of articles. Images and close ups in this article.

https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?p=AONE&u=googlescholar&id=GALE|A547490672&v=2 .1&it=r&sid=googleScholar&asid=a08698bc

Generally, flutes during the first half of the 19th century were built of wood and carved with a lathe from a solid piece of material. The lathe worker would leave blocks of wood in the body of the flute and then drill a small hole and thread a pin through the hole and the key. (See figure 1.)

Laurent's glass flutes obviously could not be carved in this way. Instead, he soldered silver sleeves or plates onto the bodies of his flutes which provided stability and prevented wiggling or cracking. He then drilled two holes through the plates and the glass and screwed in two posts, between which he threaded a pin and a key. (See figure 2.)

This concept was later adopted by Bohm on his metal flutes and was the basis for his scale system. Today, plates (now called "ribs") are soldered to the tube of flutes, and a series of rods holds the entire key mechanism. (See figure 3.)

Laurent's ingenuity in this regard seems remarkable: He is believed to be the inventor of this mechanism, now so widely used on woodwind instruments. But how did he come up with this idea, and what other social and cultural aspects may have played a part?

On his patent of 1806, Laurent's "Profession du deposant" was listed as a "horloger mecanicien, a "time engineer," trained to repair watches and clocks. Turn-of-the-century France holds several examples of similarities between watchmaking and flutemaking. Some evidence suggests that watchmakers may have had the means and skills to manipulate glass, but this was mostly in relation to watchcases, and evidence suggests that even this was a risky endeavour. Therefore this process was probably often outsourced. The flutemaking business likely operated in a similar manner, with Laurent as a "master flute builder," directing and overseeing the production of his flutes but employing outside specialists to build the necessary parts.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1664487769.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1664487769.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1664487769.jpg

Thanks for the history on it. Unlike some of these other asswipes, your post was both useful and welcome. I googled some images of this thing, it’s not as ornate as I had pictured in my mind. It’s interesting that he chose to make it from that material, now I need to look at when they started making them out of silver and other metals.

Interesting, all but the middle flute look like they are fluted (maybe tiny pun intended).

I checked, fluting has been around a lot longer in architecture, so I guess the naming is just happenstance.

Wow, assuming I’m in the asswipe club that seems like a quick jump to the name calling game. It’s ok to admit that you were in bad form. I do it all the time.

All this being said, it is a beautiful instrument and it seemed like it had a different tone in the video I posted of lizzo playing it. Thanks for the history.

I thought someone was calling JD names until I realized that it was JD that posted, then I realized that he must be calling other folks names.

https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/status/1575469765858050056?s=21&t=wrnW70MYXRb0MXLIO4IR_g
One more video. This lady explains the significance pretty well.

I think her characterization of Madison is a little simplistic.

Did he own slaves?

Yes he did. And if that’s the extent of your analysis of his character, you fail just as she did.

You are 110% right. Anyone that would enslave another person is a monster and devoid of character. Lizzo did not fail and neither did I. The fact that you are worked up is telling.

I’m not worked up, the fact that people make that comment is amusing.

Maybe you should use this opportunity to take a look at Mr. Madison and his views, they’re not as straightforward as you probably think.

Not that I care what you think, I’m just trying to be polite.

And you can’t seem to follow a thread, the failure that I referenced earlier was in reference to your liberal lady educating us on Mr. Madison. She got a couple things wrong right off the bat but also biased her characterization of him. Not that I was expecting otherwise but one can hope.

As for Lizzo, now that you mention her, I would’ve had more respect for her performance had she actually played the flute in her concert. She apparently played it earlier in the day, I guess her focus that evening was more about the twerking than actually playing anything.

Whatever, IDGAF.

Man it’s annoying when someone starts a thread clearly worked up over something and then ens it with IDGAF. History is history and that teacher was showing no bias. It is what it is.

Yeah we can tell,,:rolleyes: Just chalk it up to "I don't get it" like you already said and leave it at that..

Just one of many instances I'm sure.:D

Uh oh JD, I think you’re being accused of “mean Tweets”. Just remember how that turned out for the last guy.

This thread is funny as hell ... I thought I would contribute what I think about this :).

This Lizzo-flute controversy is a perfect example of what I have termed Face Tattoo Phenomenon™: the phenomenon whereby someone does something deliberately controversial in an attempt to draw attention, and then acts offended when you notice.

FTP .... that acronym is already taken.

SIRDGAFA...R

That one is available :)

Pretty much, oh yeah, also racist, because, reasons.

If she can twirk and play the flute at the same time, I would be impressed.

Did I miss it, or does it remain a complete mystery why this was done?

But Clinton's cigar has already been played. And now, James Madison's flute has been played! The two monumental first time events are just added layers to the historically important presidential lore of this country

My oh my, one would think that we ran outta canadian beer down here

Most folks "go with the flow." Values are largely taught/learned. If you grow up in a world where certain things are normal and widely accepted, most folks will believe it. Not just with slavery, but with lots of things. There are thousands and millions of examples of things that are acceptable in one culture but unacceptable in another today.

Who knows what our descendents will think is perfectly normal 200 years from now or will be appalled that we think is normal today.

I don't in any way condone slavery, but at the same time, I am not going to try to say that everyone in the past that's had slaves have been horrible people. In many cases they were just people doing what people did in their time. I think it was a bad thing, of course, because I have the values of today. And lets not forget that the US and the enslavement of Africans is not the only slavery that's occurred in the history of man. There has been lots of slavery of lots of folks over the last few thousand years (and it's still going on today in parts of the world).

lol!

It's Art, folks. It is meant to evoke a reaction.
If you don't "get it ", that is fine.

Best
Les

I agree with that, Scott; owning slaves soils one's otherwise accomplishments and relegates that person to the status of scumbag, the way I see it.

The caution by some to not judge past figurers by current standards of conduct is worthy of consideration/contemplation, but for me, that doesn't hold water when it comes to this subject, for several reasons; for one, many people of the era saw the evil in slavery (it was not a country-wide accepted practice, or norm, in other words, for a great many Americans - aka - the entire populace was not under some otherworldly trance of "slavery good" and thus not responsible for their choices and actions), and those that did engage in slavery, did so for entirely self-serving reasons (financial gain, maintenance of current lifestyle, and so forth) at the great expense of others (the slaves) which tells me that their characters were little more than that of the most base animal, regardless of how frequently and loudly they sang hymns in church. And if somehow some genuinely did not know what they were doing was morally wrong, then they were beyond clueless, and/or willfully blind. I consider those folks (from the common Joe or Jane to the most celebrated public figures) to be worthy of contempt, and certainly not be extended a pass simply because slavery was a popular practice of the time.

The same goes for some questionable behaviors/practices that have seemingly gained current acceptance in our society; regardless of supposed acceptance, many note the obvious wrong/evil, and those that do not, are either blind, stupid, incredibly self-serving, or a combination of all that, and should not get a pass in the future for wallowing in the popular cesspools of today.