Who to talk to about erosion management/prevention

[Cajundaddy]

Not my area of expertise but it seems that water velocity is the main driver of the erosion. Here in the PNW ranchers and farmers are putting in faux beaver dams in upper streams using natural wood from the area. This slows the velocity during storms and allows the water to drain over several days rather than a few hours. I don't know if this would work in your situation but it is getting positive results in OR, ID, MT, CO. Food for thought.

[masraum]

Thanks all.

Bah, what do those folks in PNW know about precipitation driven water flow!

[Seahawk]

I know this may not come as a surprise to you, but engaging the local ag extension folks can also inform you of applicable rules and regulations governing how to best accomplish your goals.

I live in a "critical area" that governs a lot of the farm, water and soil management practices I follow.

I would start by asking some really broad questions about your area in general. No specifics to start and don't let them visit your property until you understand the issues.

Also, there has to be a company in your area that does this type of work. I'd ask the same type of broad questions of them as well. They know the rules backwards and forward.

[masraum]

Good point. The north end of our property has "State of Texas Channel Easement" where the ravine runs into a large culvert under the road.

[oldE]

Originally Posted by masraum

I've wondered about building a bridge, but trying to fix the problem is more appealing.

I think part of the issue is that we mowed it. I'm sure the missus would love something that looked like a fairway, but I think the deep vegetation helps the erosion. Tall grasses lay down and create a blanket that the water flows over. Maybe I'm foolish to think that filling some of the erosion back in and then getting the right plants in place would help, but I think we're going to try. At least we'll buy some time.

This.
Plant willows, cottonwood or whatever will grow there to stabilize the soil.
Don't try to fight nature. She will beat your ass every time.

Best
Les

[KFC911]

^^^^ Agree 100% with sparring with Ma Nature... she's got a nasty left hook . Trees.... it just depends. My largest pond (1 acre and spring fed), began to lower back in 2015, below the outflow pipe .... which feeds another smaller pond. No runoff enters any of my three ponds fwiw. I could see where the water was entering one of the parallel "flood control ditches" referenced earlier about half-way down. After some creative detective work, and lots of manual labor with a post hole digger, I found the source of the leak.... a big azz oak tree root had entered the bottom of the pond about 3' down. Creative engineering ensued.... I dug out a trench with the post hole diggers about a foot away from the pond's edge, in the earth berm.... little by little, 4" wide, and ended up being about 20' long.... filling with bags of concrete as I went along, until I discovered the root about the size of my forearm. All of my work is hidden inside the earth berm now, but there's a concrete wall buried inside the earth.

Pipes, culverts, etc. can (and do) become clogged during storms.... even a wire fence on a property line that crosses a normally dry ditch can become a dam.(if blocked by leaves, twigs, limbs, etc. ).... and make a bad situation a BIG problem with flooding.

Every situation is probably unique, but work with Mother, not against her.

She will win in 15 rounds ... every single time... unless she just Mike Tysons yer azz in 30 seconds .

[dad911]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

I know this may not come as a surprise to you, but engaging the local ag extension folks can also inform you of applicable rules and regulations governing how to best accomplish your goals.
.....

In NJ it will get the state involved, and a 200' wetlands buffer in which you will not be allowed to disturb. Forever.

Simplest would be some ADS pipe with rip-rap (large rocks) at the inlet and outlet to slow the water down.

[KFC911]

^^^^ That would never work on my properties after heavy rains and flooding. Not even 3 of them.... and that's before they became clogged with debris.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by KC911

^^^^ That would never work on my properties after heavy rains and flooding. Not even 3 of them.... and that's before they became clogged with debris.

Exactly right

The pics below are actually after and before. The one is during a heavy rain and the other is 5 days later after the water had subsided. I think in the heaviest rain that we've seen there must have been 3-4' of water over the top of where the tubes would have been.

Originally Posted by masraum

This is the area very full of water (5 days after the pic below).
when we moved in you could walk/drive a tractor across the whole area to the left of the water (other than the far right area being full of tall weeds or being muddy for a while after rains)



This is what we experienced 2-3 times last year (nothing remotely like it this year, too dry).

[fintstone]

If you do something to alter the flow (drain water from your property onto others) and it damages their property, you will probably find yourself in trouble and possibly financially liable. https://guides.sll.texas.gov/neighbor-law/water-damage
Similarly, if you are part of a controlled watershed or waterfowl/marsh area and make changes, you will have trouble.

That is probably not the case if you are pretty rural and your best bet will probably be to plant some trees and create some sort of retention pond where you choose rather than allowing the water to choose (and diverting the water there). https://landassociation.org/texas-water-law-a-pond-to-call-my-own/

You should probably ensure you are not breaking the "rules" before you do anything. Channel flow (the ditch) like you have is likely covered by Texas water laws https://agrilife.org/texasaglaw/files/2018/01/Basics-of-Texas-Water-Law.pdf. to some extent.
The thin layer elsewhere (sheet flow) is not and you can generally work to direct/absorb it to prevent erosion.

A nice pond generally increases property value and is common (especially in Texas), but unless you have a relatively constant flow in and out, it will create a breeding ground for mosquitos/algae in most places so you will want to add a small pond pump/fountain or aerator to move the water. A fountain looks nice.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by KC911

^^^^ That would never work on my properties after heavy rains and flooding. Not even 3 of them.... and that's before they became clogged with debris.

Cropped the pic. Not the 4" box store crap, that pipe is available 12-16" and larger and is suitable for driving over if embedded/backfilled in stone.

[KFC911]

^^^^ Yes, I am familiar with, and know how inadequate even 3 of them would be in my particular situations. When I say that these ravines & ditches become small raging rivers, carrying huge volumes of H2O after heavy rains... I don't think some of y'all realize what I am talking about . They become clogged, becoming unwanted dams that can turn acres of land into lakes.... I've seen it and lived it. And any retention pond, etc. that has flood runoff running into it, becomes full in no time, if not always full. A full 1 acre pond, might as well be a paved 1 acre parking lot.... makes a bad situation even worse. Mother Nature would just cackle at futile attempts to mitigate what she delivers around here after heavy rains... that water HAS to flow.... or else .

[flatbutt]

I'm no hydrologist so feel free to laugh but what if you enlarge that ditch enough to line the bottom with rip-rap and then just leave it be? Would that help?

[masraum]

Originally Posted by fintstone

If you do something to alter the flow (drain water from your property onto others) and it damages their property, you will probably find yourself in trouble and possibly financially liable. https://guides.sll.texas.gov/neighbor-law/water-damage
Similarly, if you are part of a controlled watershed or waterfowl/marsh area and make changes, you will have trouble.

That is probably not the case if you are pretty rural and your best bet will probably be to plant some trees and create some sort of retention pond where you choose rather than allowing the water to choose (and diverting the water there). https://landassociation.org/texas-water-law-a-pond-to-call-my-own/

You should probably ensure you are not breaking the "rules" before you do anything. Channel flow (the ditch) like you have is likely covered by Texas water laws https://agrilife.org/texasaglaw/files/2018/01/Basics-of-Texas-Water-Law.pdf. to some extent.
The thin layer elsewhere (sheet flow) is not and you can generally work to direct/absorb it to prevent erosion.

A nice pond generally increases property value and is common (especially in Texas), but unless you have a relatively constant flow in and out, it will create a breeding ground for mosquitos/algae in most places so you will want to add a small pond pump/fountain or aerator to move the water. A fountain looks nice.

I don't plan to alter flow. There's currently an area that usually has water year round. We'd like to enlarge that area a little bit. Then we want the water to continue to take the same path that it currently takes, but we'd like to eliminate/reduce the erosion on that path.

Based on the shape of our property and surrounding property, trying to change what the water is doing today would essentially be impossible and very foolish.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

I'm no hydrologist so feel free to laugh but what if you enlarge that ditch enough to line the bottom with rip-rap and then just leave it be? Would that help?

Something like that is what I've been thinking. But of course, the missus wants the area to be smooth and covered in grass.

The problem is that when we moved it we had a situation like the top, but then after some heavy rains last year, we ended up with a situation like the bottom.

[KFC911]

i would probably build a bridge and have it anchored/imbedded in concrete on each side (doesn't have to be visible) extending a few feet into the stable ground with both spans imbedded into one large chunk. If errosion is an issue... rip-rap around the banks there. Else your bridge, if the wind is just right, might become a "wing" and fly away .

Don't ask me how know this .... but I'm glad dad's bridge was totally destroyed after a few decades, instead of just slight damage. He used to drive his tractors across, and that could have been a terrible result. Water and wind .... Ma Nature don't play. The bridge I replaced it is WAY over-engineered, but simple and isn't going anywhere. If the H2O raises and gets to the bridge level, it will flow over it, but that's never happened. Just a flat bridge... no handrails, etc.

That's what men with no wimmins do ...

Good luck Steve

[Bill Douglas]

that buried pipe thing I mentioned will give you that smooth surface, and draw away water in normal conditions. The water gets through the joins in the pipes.

As far as major floods go, nothing is going to save it.

The pond could be kept clear of mosquitoes by putting perch or koi, but if it floods regularly like in the pic, of course you'll lose the fish.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

that buried pipe thing I mentioned will give you that smooth surface, and draw away water in normal conditions. The water gets through the joins in the pipes.

As far as major floods go, nothing is going to save it.

The pond could be kept clear of mosquitoes by putting perch or koi, but if it floods regularly like in the pic, of course you'll lose the fish.

The "pond" was full of water from when we moved in in Dec until this year around Apr or May, so a full year and a half. I think under normal circumstances there will always be water in it. It was full of tiny fish when there was water in it. I assume they ate the mosquitos, because we never have them here. I assume any that make it to maturity are eaten by the barn swallows.

[Cajundaddy]

This is what they are doing on ranches and farms out west where erosion and deep stream cuts are becoming a problem. These BDAs slow down the water velocity during typical storms while allowing higher flows over the top. They also raise the water table which improves on site wells and encourage birds and wildlife to re-inhabit the area.

Done right they can add a lot of value to a property.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

This is what they are doing on ranches and farms out west where erosion and deep stream cuts are becoming a problem. These BDAs slow down the water velocity during typical storms while allowing higher flows over the top. They also raise the water table which improves on site wells and encourage birds and wildlife to re-inhabit the area.

Done right they can add a lot of value to a property.

Very cool, thanks for posting.