Who to talk to about erosion management/prevention

masraum · 10-04-2022, 08:05 PM

We've got a natural ravine in our property. It's usually got some water in it at the two edges of our property year round. When there's a lot of rain, water flows south to north.

The ravine in the blue outlined area WAS a shallow depression full of grasses/weeds that the water flowed across. The yellow line is 2-3' deep and maybe 3-8' across until it gets into the "woods" on the north side of the property.

Last year we had a lot of rain and had about 10-15' of erosion (blue outline, ravine 2-3' deep). In the area (green arrow) that we normally use to walk or take the tractor from the west side to the east side we probably had 20-25' that we could have driven the zero turn across, but now we've got 6-8' of space to get across. We'd like to enlarge/widen the pool (red outline) on the side with the heavy line It's 25-30' long and maybe 8-10' wide normally (completely dry right now). I figure that we can use the dirt that comes from enlarging it to fill in where there's been erosion. But then we'd like to prevent future erosion from doing the same thing. The yellow line is roughly the path of the ravine. My wife is also worried about a large mature tree being unstable due to the erosion, but I don't think that's an issue. I think that has been eroded for a while, it's probably 15' from the tree, and the tree is on a rise. I suppose it's possible that under the right circumstances of wind and erosion the tree could come down. Maybe if we get enough earth from enlarging it, we could fill in the ravine (maintaining a gradual depression) on the bottom part of the yellow line to where it makes a "right turn".

I'm assuming we should have someone come out to look at it and advise us on the best thing to do to reclaim/preserve some of the ravine, prevent future erosion, and enlarge the pool. My first thought was extension office, but I don't think they are the right group. I can't imagine the Army Corp of Engineers being the right group either for something like this.
I'm thinking we talk to the extension folks and maybe they know who we should talk to. The good news is that their office for this county is just up the road.

Then I realized that the brain trust usually has someone with experience or an expert or at least advice and may know who we should talk to about this?

Bill Douglas · 10-04-2022, 08:12 PM

Steve, it may not be terribly elegant, but I think if a four foot deep ditch was dug into the bottom of the ravine (yellow line) the water would be drawn from the surrounding area into the ditch and would run off the property better. The tree has more chance of survival with the ground being less damp. and the tree will put down deeper roots if the ground is less damp and has to grow roots more deeply to find water.

masraum · 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

Steve, it may not be terribly elegant, but I think if a four foot deep ditch was dug into the bottom of the ravine (yellow line) the water would be drawn from the surrounding area into the ditch and would run off the property better. The tree has more chance of survival with the ground being less damp. and the tree will put down deeper roots if the ground is less damp and has to grow roots more deeply to find water.

That's exactly what it happening naturally. The yellow line is essentially a ditch and it's lengthening. It used to stop where it is in my original post, but now the ditch extends down to the area in the blue circle. It probably won't take more than a few more heavy rains before the ditch gets to the pool which will probably turn the pool into a dry ditch and will mean that we can't easily get the mower to the other side of the property. The yellow area doesn't stay damp, it drains to the north side of the property.

This is the area very full of water (5 days after the pic below).
when we moved in you could walk/drive a tractor across the whole area to the left of the water (other than the far right area being full of tall weeds or being muddy for a while after rains)

This is what we experienced 2-3 times last year (nothing remotely like it this year, too dry).

After a few heavy rains like above last year the ditch has extended left to right so now there's only a short distance where we can drive the mower to get to the other side of the property. We'd prefer to continue to be able to get the tractor to the other side of the property.

Bill Douglas · 10-04-2022, 08:37 PM

At my mom's place there was an area at the back of the farm that had always been damp. She got a ditch dug then pipes put down in it. They were just those ordinary terracotta looking 10" pipes. It just pulled all the moisture out of the field in a couple of days and became nice aerated soil ever since. and with the pipes being buried you could drive over the top and craze cattle etc.

Nice looking land by the way.

KFC911 · 10-04-2022, 08:42 PM

A small ditch that I could step over as a kid is now 6-7' deep and about 10-12' wide. This is on the back side of dad's property and his bridge was destroyed by wind about 6-7 yesrs ago. I over engineered the replacement bridge I built for him, but when dealing with Mother Nature.... good luck! I have no answer.... I see what H2O does on my rural property too ... ditches became small canyons in my lifetime...

"Like a bridge over troubled water...."

These ditches (now ravines) go from virtually (or totally) dry to small raging creeks/rivers after heavy rains....

Good luck!

masraum · 10-04-2022, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

At my mom's place there was an area at the back of the farm that had always been damp. She got a ditch dug then pipes put down in it. They were just those ordinary terracotta looking 10" pipes. It just pulled all the moisture out of the field in a couple of days and became nice aerated soil ever since. and with the pipes being buried you could drive over the top and craze cattle etc.

Nice looking land by the way.

Thanks, we fell in love when we found it.

masraum · 10-04-2022, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC911

A small ditch that I could step over as a kid is now 6-7' deep and about 10-12' wide. This is on the back side of dad's property and his bridge was destroyed by wind about 6-7 yesrs ago. I over engineered the replacement bridge I built for him, but when dealing with Mother Nature.... good luck! I have no answer.... I see what H2O does on my rural property too ... ditches became small canyons in my lifetime...

"Like a bridge over troubled water...."

These ditches (now ravines) go from virtually (or totally) dry to small raging creeks/rivers after heavy rains....

Good luck!

I've wondered about building a bridge, but trying to fix the problem is more appealing.

I think part of the issue is that we mowed it. I'm sure the missus would love something that looked like a fairway, but I think the deep vegetation helps the erosion. Tall grasses lay down and create a blanket that the water flows over. Maybe I'm foolish to think that filling some of the erosion back in and then getting the right plants in place would help, but I think we're going to try. At least we'll buy some time.

KFC911 · 10-05-2022, 03:39 AM

^^^^ I get it, and you are probably correct, but the water will win eventually. I remember helping my grandfather put in the first big pipe in a small ditch about 50 years ago... it's now 8' deep, with two more, and still can't handle the flow after heavy rains.... but rare. Since 2017, I've dealt with at least 6 HEAVY floodings that never occurred before. Things are different now with localized flioding. Both of my "problem ditches" have also had the issue exacerbated by neighbors who built small ponds (.75 acres each) above them, removing the ability to absorb the excess. When full, they might as well be paved parking lots in terms of drainage. Good luck Steve.... your place looks awesome, and Mama Nature will keep you busy. I live in the Piedmont... my area used to be the woods of my Boy Scout camp in the 70'.... now suburbia. Same thing happens in the acres of woods (not mine) behind my house.... the ravines have deepened in the past 30 years I've been here. The H2O has to flow and it will win eventually.... Mick wuz a liar

.

Mebbe mitigate some, and also a bridge? I enjoy redneck engineering .... have fun, and good luck

!

stevej37 · 10-05-2022, 04:04 AM

[QUOTE=masraum;11814118]
My first thought was extension office, but I don't think they are the right group. I can't imagine the Army Corp of Engineers being the right group either for something like this.
I'm thinking we talk to the extension folks and maybe they know who we should talk to. The good news is that their office for this county is just up the road.

If your extension office is similar to ours here....they will be happy to help out.

masraum · 10-05-2022, 04:09 AM

Yep, mother nature will make us her beyotch in the end every time.

That's what I was tihnking Steve. I've never dealt with them, but I've heard from lots of sources that they are generally super helpful.

p911dad · p911dad's Garage

You might try your local Soil Conservation Service for advice. If you have one (it may have a slightly different name) they have experts on these issues, mostly agricultural stuff. I think one of the main remedies is to slow down the water maybe with log barriers or stone barriers that allow the water to go over, but at lower velocity.

mattdavis11 · 10-05-2022, 05:16 AM

These are the people you want to talk with. https://agrilifeextension.tamu.edu/counties/colorado-county/

If you contact TPWD, they might also offer their insight as to what you could do to enhance your property in a manner that would be beneficial to the wildlife.

masraum · 10-05-2022, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p911dad

You might try your local Soil Conservation Service for advice. If you have one (it may have a slightly different name) they have experts on these issues, mostly agricultural stuff. I think one of the main remedies is to slow down the water maybe with log barriers or stone barriers that allow the water to go over, but at lower velocity.

I'd thought the same thing as have others in the past. farther up the ravine there's a spot where some previous owner dumped a half a dozen bags of cement. They just tossed the whole bag in, so now I have several bag shaped cement "boulders" in the ravine. I had been putting some brush/tree trimmings in the ravine to try to slow things down. If we get a huge rain, all of it would wash away, but under moderate conditions, it may have helped a bit. Some of it is still there, but I'm sure that it's barely helpful the way that I've done it. I've wondered about rocks/gravel too. I'm hoping to talk to someone that's an expert to give me something that will be as effective as possible to slow things down. As KC said, I'm sure nothing will stop mother nature, but maybe we can slow her down.

masraum · 10-05-2022, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattdavis11

These are the people you want to talk with. https://agrilifeextension.tamu.edu/counties/colorado-county/

If you contact TPWD, they might also offer their insight as to what you could do to enhance your property in a manner that would be beneficial to the wildlife.

OK, so the extension service, that was my first thought, and fortunately, their office is just a few miles up 90 from our place. Thanks, Matt.

pete3799 · pete3799's Garage

I would dig the area in red out and put a 20' plastic culvert in. Hard to judge how big of a culvert you would need from the heavy rain picture. 18" may not be big enough.

masraum · 10-05-2022, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete3799

I would dig the area in red out and put a 20' plastic culvert in. Hard to judge how big of a culvert you would need from the heavy rain picture. 18" may not be big enough.

The problem with that is that we do want to have a "pond" on the right, so if we put in a pipe, we essentially drain the pond.

nota · 10-05-2022, 06:07 AM

so put the pipe to drain the pond to the level you desire

Seahawk · 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masraum

OK, so the extension service, that was my first thought, and fortunately, their office is just a few miles up 90 from our place. Thanks, Matt.

100%. Start there.

Ditch design and soil run-off management is a big deal here in the Chesapeake water shed and they have put resources toward it.

I have made substantive changes to water run-off management on my farm and will be making a few additional adjustments.

Nice place, Steve!!!

KFC911 · 10-05-2022, 07:06 AM

Don't even think about trying to block the flood flows with logs, cement, blocks, tires (

), etc. as it will only exacerbate the problem over time... seen it and btdt. Asking for professional advice is good, but no matter what.... the H2O HAS to flow during floods and believe me, I know.... life lessons

. The rains/floods have been a LOT worse than ever in my lifetime too over the past few years... and likely to worsen imo.

Good luck and have fun

!

KFC911 · 10-05-2022, 07:14 AM

One more thing.... grasses do indeed help mitigate modest flows, but not flood flows. A rip-rap of larger sized rocks will indeed stop banks from eroding (like they do on lakes, dams, etc.) but the H2O will move or find a path UNDER the ground.... got one of those too .... naturally.

"Lake Masraum" .... has a nice ring to it