Jura Saeco Gaggia Miele
 

Have bought two everyday machines, Breville & Black & Decker, since my last thread a year ago looking to move on from a Technivorm Moccamaster that makes nice, but weak for me, coffee. Even experimented with trying to use it as a french press turning it on and off to no avail. Plugging the basket hole a little... nope. And don't leave it on with the carafe not on the warmer without a timer.

Starbucks is supposed to be releasing a home version of the Clover but I don't think that's coming out any time soon.

The original Clovers are semi-findable but pricey. I would spend the money if they were half this.

Clover 1s Coffee Maker

Have decided to get a super automatic. The Jura E8 is where I think I'm going. Saeco and Gaggie and Miele are also good names.

Reliability is a key issue. Assuming any of the 4 can make an awesome cup of coffee, anyone have experience with these brands? And specific models?

The place we stayed at in Grand Cayman had a Jura automatic. Cannot remember what type/model.
Loved it.

We have a Kureg.... :(

I bought a Wirsch off Amazon for about $150. Works great for me with Cafe Bustelo.

Are you making drip? How about buy a good grinder and try a #2 melitta cone or a v60? Makes excellent coffee if you have a good grinder and buy good beans. Melitta cone and filters will cost like $8 on amazon. To my palette its in the same league as a clover.

For espresso (which is the thing I need): I've kept an expobar brewtus running for 15 years. Its simple inside, parts available and I can fix whatever breaks. For flavor in the cup it can go head to head with $10k machines.

For a current good reliable machine I like the profitech 600 but you need a good grinder and access to good beans.

The 'automatic' machines you mentioned are pretty complex... I see old ones on the curb. The plastic doesn't tolerate the heat. I wouldn't expect one to last 15 years. And... sort of important... the espresso they make is complete garbage. I am pretty sure these are a gimmick for people that don't taste their coffee.

I used to roast my own beans....

Freshly roasted beans .... a day later to two weeks old, a good burr grinder, and a French Press.... that's all it took for me :).

Now I have lost my "A" game...

Not trying to sway opinion (yes I am :) ) but have you thought about a very good quality manutal machine such as a Rocket E61 or Vibieme Domobar Super. and a Mini Mazzer grinder. It gives you that extra flexibility to fne tune your coffess.

A bit like driving a manual Porsche 911 instead of an automatic Civic.

I'll sway too....

Like cooking... Ya gotta start with fresh....

Source a roaster, or roast your own green beans.... a local BBQ joint has started roasting in a side room.... Freshly roasted Sumatra and I even let them grind the bag for me and use a drip machine....'cause I broke my French press.

The result doesn't suck, but it's not like what I used to do either ;).

And black .... Nuthin' else belongs in a good cup of coffee either :D!

One of our kids has a Jura, I don't recall the model. When staying there, it's like having real coffee for the first time. Great coffee and fast.

I've bought three juras - all refurbs by wholelattelove.com.

They're as solid and reliable as a rock. One at work did nearly 15k shots before needing a service, and Jura is one of those "shoot it, light it on fire, drag it from an elephant and we'll fix it" companies.

And while probably not sponsored by Jura, your nuclear weapons' detonators were also fueled by that coffeemaker...

I've been elbows deep in all of them and you will do great with the e8 or a Gaggia. It seems like Jura parts are slightly easier to find, but Saeco and Gaggia and Philips all share many parts so if you get in a pinch sometimes you can find cross references and Get around it.

The key to longevity is running the cleaning cycle often and keeping the machine otherwise clean manually. Don't let the machine sit there with the power on for days at a time. Both have "auto off" features now.

Gaggias are great and all share the same mechanism. The newer generation of smaller gaggias open a right side door for cleaning etc so if you want to put it against a wall on the counter you may have trouble.

The generation of Gaggias that is getting phased out like ACCADEMIA and ANIMA can be had at a great price and the door opens to the front so you can put it up against the wall if you need to.

Accademia is great and has lots of tweak ability and a flow restrictor on the front so you can really get close to a real shot of espresso if you like.

Anima is a great value and has almost an identical mechanism but Less junk re: milk and steam etc. just a good solid cup or shot.


If you are just gonna beat the holy hell out of it I -guess the Jura will last longer but both will be great. The less complicated the less stuff there is to break.

When it does break the Jura requires disassembly but the Gaggias you just pull the mechanism right out and fix it and throw it back in.

If you don't care about bells and and whistles that Gaggia Anima represents a great value right now.

Saeco and Gaggia used to be great machines.
Saeco and Gaggia are basically the same thing now that Phillips bought the names. They are NOT good coffee makers any more. I bought a Saeco 20 years ago and it was solid as a rock for years. Had some problems with it a couple of years ago and decided to replace it. I got a post-Phillips Saeco and the grinder would clog on ANY dark roast beans and many medium roasts. I called the tech at Wholelattelove and he confirmed - they are touchy about the beans you use and you CANNOT use dark roast beans in them. Even using medium roast beans the grinder would clog about every 10th cup of coffee.
I sold it and tried a Gaggia. Once I got it home I discovered that, other than styling and a few buttons on the front, the Gaggia was the same as the Saeco. Same crappy grinder and brew unit as the Saeco under the hood. I gave it away and got a Jura E6.
I've had the Jura for over a year and it is solid as a rock. It will make great coffee from any kind of beans. In retrospect I should have gotten an E8. I think it has the grounds bypass that the E6 lacks, and sometimes I like to do a one-off cup of coffee.
I love superautomatics, and if you want a reliable one - stay away from Phillip's brands.

https://www.clearlycoffee.com/why-you-should-avoid-oily-coffee-beans-with-super-automatic-espresso-machines/

Coffee too weak? Lots of options, finer grind, more beans, less water. All inexpensive.

Ive had a Jura Z5 for 18 years. Same machine. It has been sent in for repairs twice. Worth it. It is possible to do self repairs. You can get parts and specialized tools on the internet, as well as the typical fix-it vids on Youtube. Its getting a little long in the tooth, but the coffee is amazing. Cant give it up.

I’m going on 15 years with a Jura E8.
Just checked the stats menu and it says 11,653 cups.

The good:
Makes a very good cup of coffee. I think better than any drip method with the “crema” that rises to the top of the cup.
Very convenient, 20 to 30 seconds to heat up for first cup and then it will make cup after cup.

The not so good:
After approx 10 years it needed servicing and a few parts.
I’ve had it opened up a few times and it’s pretty straightforward and parts are readily available. For anyone not interested in opening it up there are a few companies that clean and refurbish for around $500.
I’ve probably spent about $150 in parts to keep it going like new.
I wouldn’t hesitate to buy another if had to. Chances are I won’t because the newer models have many of the same internals as the older models.

+1 on the oily beans. Luckily I actually like a medium-roast espresso so I don't feel the loss from missing out on the really dark roasts. One of the bigger commercial roasters in NM has a pretty tasty Guatamala that's easily available at our local Kroger.

One of these days I'm going to hack an auto-filler into ours - the reservior is smaller than it seems, and this J80 isn't even the "little" Jura. I feed it RO water as our tap water up here on this volcano is thick with silicates that nothing will cut short of HF acid.

You'd think that once you get in the kilobuck+ range that there would be a hard-plumbed capability. You can certainly get that sort of thing in the fancier semi-autos. Should be easy to build something with a wee arduino, a relay, a solenoid valve and some sensors. Heck, maybe that's my ticket - sell enough of them and I could one day be a hundred-aire! Or be on the hook for water damage claims (I am metallurgist, not plumber).

Another reason I want a auto-water-filler - I've dropped and broken the reservoir twice in the last few years. There's one in reserve just in case but right now I use a water jug to refill the thing. My butterfingers are why I can't have nice things I guess!

It would be interesting to see what the common wear items are (barring owner-abuse in my case) and stock up. I'm a full believer in fixing things and "buy right, cry once". So far this little machine's been a solid investment.

That thing about the Gaggias being fussy with beans is definitely true.

This is exactly what I was hoping for, thank you everyone for sharing your opinions and experience, great information. Weighing all the options and looking at some of the other suggestions today, I'm going with an E8. My only consideration now is will it go on sale for Christmas. 3 1/2 weeks until Thanksgiving.

Have a ENA Micro 5. 7 years and about 25k shots. Flawless. Needed a couple clean outs and lubes, easy DIY. The coffee is better than most pros and IMHO better than any home machine I sampled at friends and family.