What is the tool I Need?

[zakthor]

I occasionally make window frames and house trim and 'stuff' out of rift sawn fir. I have an old router and a good bit.

Usually I use a bunch of clamps and spare boards, saw horses, etc and I build a guide for the router and then make a bunch of passes with the router to cut the groove or edge. Like this:



Once I have all the wood clamped right I will use the setup for a few hours, then realign for the next pass. The thing that bugs me is the entire thing is super sketchy and takes me about 90 minutes to set it up perfect (doing tests with scrap wood until the result measures perfect.) And the act of cutting with router requires EXTREME concentration so its perfect. Its ridiculously difficult and tedious.

So... At a local 2nd use store they have a variety of table tool things. I can imagine the perfect tool for me would be a huge 300lb steel table with a micrometer aligned fence that would make this cutting simple. Router would be clamped to bottom of table with bit pointing up. The thing is I don't know what this perfect thing is called.

Do I want a 'router table'? The router tables I see are these tiny flimsy things with crappy fences. Is there a name for a router table that doesn't suck?

There is a thing called a 'shaper' but it looks like it only does edges, and I need to be able to cut actual grooves. There's also a jointer but it looks like its for milling boards flat.

What is the exotic thing that I want and why aren't they more common.

Thanks!

[Bill Douglas]

I'm impressed with the skills you have!

[herr_oberst]

This is what I use; am not a pro, just a hobbyist. It works, OK, you need to make or buy a a good featherboard to hold your work tight against the fence, and the fence is a little finicky, but I've gotten good results. I've built plenty of picture frames, window casings, baseboard moldings, that kind of stuff... I like the fact that it uses a normal PorterCable router motor, (Ive got three of those router motors - It's nice because I don't have to change bits in the middle of a project, just change motors.

(Not sure if they even still make these, but there's plenty of similar tools around)

[look 171]

Two way to do this. make a router table and clamp a fence to it. Set it up once, multiple pieces can be cut accurately just like the pic above. If you do this once in a blue moon, no use spending money on router table. mount router under a piece of plywood or sheet stock, clamp fence or use a straight piece of wood on both end. Test a piece and run 'em all.

Method two is to make a shooter board for your router. see pic. First, the router must run down the board and cut the lower portion of plywood. Each and every time you line up the cut edge of the board (shooter board) to the edge of your board you like cut, it will cut at the exactly same place each and every time.

[look 171]

What exactly are you trying to make, grooves?

Here's a fence you need. The bolt with wing nut is there so you can move only one end of the fence for east of adjustment (forget two clamps). The square hole in the middle is for edge routing and chip relief. If straight cut or grooving then that hole isn't needed. Forget the fancy equipments. Jointers are basically large electric hand planes. They are use to straighten out or sq up boards. Sharpers are basically huge routers. They are great for cope and stick for your window sash and doors. Now, cutters are available for large routers, DIYs but a router table is needed for those cutters.

[look 171]

sorry, here's the pic for my first post

[bkreigsr]

Have you looked at Rockler?
https://www.rockler.com/?sid=V91071&gclid=Cj0KCQiApb2bBhDYARIsAChHC9vdQ1KJVq9aBl4j7F_p MSLFg9JXQoz60AOvMRdelfXLe3YVQZrRZ2waAhdlEALw_wcB

[zakthor]

Ok, I'll try and explain again. I'm sorry I've no education in woodworking, I just make stuff up. I'm looking for an easier way because what I'm doing now is excruciating.

Maybe the most complicated thing I do is the labyrinth seals for new window 'rails'. Here's some left over test scraps and end pieces:



I'm currently using a combination of table saw and router and it takes forever and its really stressful because I respect that wood. When I'm done I paint and glue in a new rubber seal and the windows lock into the frames perfectly.

I'm currently doing my own guide using clamps and it really sucks to router precisely. In contrast my ancient craftsman table saw has a solid metal fence and weighs 150# so its steady and accurate and fast to setup, its 'fine'. I can skooch it a bit until its perfect where my router clamp system is terrible.

I look on craigslist and there's 999 huge table saws, giant steel faces with big, luscious fences, etc. Why don't I see any giant router tables? Is there a way to adapt those giant table saws to hold a router?

The little things I see called "router tables" are way to small and light. At least I'm pretty sure they are, but maybe I'm just doing it wrong.

How about a 'dado blade'? Could that create smooth cuts like a router?

There was a big 200# craftsman 'shaper tool' that I almost bought but its not as flexible as a router because it doesn't have a lot of motion for the cutter, looks like its pretty specific to shaping edges and is really limited by the cutter bits you get. If a shaper's fence could move back from the spindle 6" or so it would be glorious.

Is what I'm doing strange? Am I just asking at the wrong wood stores? What I'm doing feels like it would be easy if I had a better tool.

[rwest]

Router table is the way to go, I built one from plans from The New Yankee Workshop and then added a fancy router lift and an Incra adjustable fence.

In the picture below, you can see I just set it up and ran a bunch of door frames for a cabinet- fairly quick setup and very safe, fast and predictable cutting.

You could also just screw your router to a piece of plywood sitting on sawhorses with a hole in it for a grooving bit and clamp another board with a gap in it over the bit to mimic my setup at a less fancy level and get perfect results too. Mine just gives me micro adjustability, bit storage, dust collection and a slimmer wallet!

[island911]

Better tools (router table ^ ) and more tools.

Don't think that one tool has to do it all.

[island911]

Originally Posted by zakthor

Is there a way to adapt those giant table saws to hold a router?.

Yes. I'll take pictures of what I have, later today. - It looks a lot like what herr_oberst posted, but is actually a modified table-saw.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by zakthor

Ok, I'll try and explain again. I'm sorry I've no education in woodworking, I just make stuff up. I'm looking for an easier way because what I'm doing now is excruciating.

Maybe the most complicated thing I do is the labyrinth seals for new window 'rails'. Here's some left over test scraps and end pieces:



I'm currently using a combination of table saw and router and it takes forever and its really stressful because I respect that wood. When I'm done I paint and glue in a new rubber seal and the windows lock into the frames perfectly.

I'm currently doing my own guide using clamps and it really sucks to router precisely. In contrast my ancient craftsman table saw has a solid metal fence and weighs 150# so its steady and accurate and fast to setup, its 'fine'. I can skooch it a bit until its perfect where my router clamp system is terrible.

I look on craigslist and there's 999 huge table saws, giant steel faces with big, luscious fences, etc. Why don't I see any giant router tables? Is there a way to adapt those giant table saws to hold a router?

The little things I see called "router tables" are way to small and light. At least I'm pretty sure they are, but maybe I'm just doing it wrong.

How about a 'dado blade'? Could that create smooth cuts like a router?

There was a big 200# craftsman 'shaper tool' that I almost bought but its not as flexible as a router because it doesn't have a lot of motion for the cutter, looks like its pretty specific to shaping edges and is really limited by the cutter bits you get. If a shaper's fence could move back from the spindle 6" or so it would be glorious.

Is what I'm doing strange? Am I just asking at the wrong wood stores? What I'm doing feels like it would be easy if I had a better tool.

A good dado set will easily make nice grooves- stay away from wobble types and get a stack set. They do take a bit of grunt to cut, so depending on the HP of your saw, you might need to make several cuts raising the blade a little each time.

From your pictures, I think the dado is the best way to go.

[rwest]

One more comment about you wanting a shaper that has a fence that is 6” away from the bit.

You almost never want to have your stock between the bit and fence on a router table or shaper- recipe for your stock to get pulled in or kicked back possibly bring your fingers into the cutter or the wood into you.

You want a split fence with the cutter “buried” in the fence to protect you from most of the cutter and give your wood a way out that isn’t violent!

[dad911]

Originally Posted by zakthor

...... my ancient craftsman table saw has a solid metal fence and weighs 150# so its steady and accurate and fast to setup, its 'fine'. I can skooch it a bit until its perfect where my router clamp system is terrible.
.......

My favorite router table was when I mounted the router to table saw extension. I would clamp a piece of hardwood to the metal fence and use it as the router fence.

like this(not my pic, my setup is long gone):

[look 171]

use the piece of plywood you had on your saw horses from the original pic. Mount the router upside down (cut 1" hole with hold saw for bit to come through. Larger if necessary) make the fence just like the one I drawn out with one bolt and a clamp. By the time you make that you should have finished routing out what's needed before you come back from the store with a router table. But to cut those grooves, use a stack-able dado set. That little router is too small to cut our a big groove like that. If you must, make multiple cuts

[oldE]

Originally Posted by dad911

My favorite router table was when I mounted the router to table saw extension. I would clamp a piece of hardwood to the metal fence and use it as the router fence.

like this(not my pic, my setup is long gone):

This is almost exactly what I did. Big surface, sturdy fence.

Best
Les

[zakthor]

I see a ton of table saws with perfect steel faces, precise steel fences, turners to precisely adjust blade height and angle.

I was thinking it is strange that the router tables that I see are really janky. The same factories that make table saws could easily make the same for routers, what is strange is that they didn't or maybe they are just crazy rare. Makes me think I'm doing something wrong.

Don't you think that strange? My motivation is that local wood window places want $3500 per window and 6 months to deliver a replacement (unpainted!) window, and I can make 3 in my driveway in less than 8 hours for < $225 each. The actual hard part of making the windows is the paint which takes me weeks of waiting for the layers to dry.

Looks like path forward is to first try a quality dado blade. If that works I'm set because table saw is great (uh... except the motor is tiny). Otherwise I go the piecemeal approach with a router lift table, like from jessem. Something like this looks perfect:

https://jessem.com/products/09412-mast-r-lift-excel-ii-table-package

Too bad I'm not finding what I want used for $100 and made from 400# of ancient cast iron. I've been looking for years and not stumbling on it.

Thanks for the responses. I still feel like what I want should be much more common.

[zakthor]

Originally Posted by rwest

Router table is the way to go, I built one from plans from The New Yankee Workshop and then added a fancy router lift and an Incra adjustable fence.

In the picture below, you can see I just set it up and ran a bunch of door frames for a cabinet- fairly quick setup and very safe, fast and predictable cutting.

You could also just screw your router to a piece of plywood sitting on sawhorses with a hole in it for a grooving bit and clamp another board with a gap in it over the bit to mimic my setup at a less fancy level and get perfect results too. Mine just gives me micro adjustability, bit storage, dust collection and a slimmer wallet!

Ok, THERE. Now I've read enough I understand what you meant... its just what you said.

The magic words are "Incra Router Lift". That is the business.

[Tobra]

Do a search for Dado blade, you are going to love what you see.

[MBAtarga]

You don't need to spend $300-$400 or more on a router table and lift system (unless you want to.)
A simple alternative - and cheap - is mount your router upside down on a 3/4" quality piece of plywood about 2'x2'. You'll need to make a hole about 1" to 1.5" diameter somewhere around 8" to 10" from one edge, but in the middle of the other 2' dimension. Mounting it near one side will make it easier for you to adjust the height of the router bit placement above the plywood surface. Screw the board down on the 2 cross boards setting on the sawhorses such as in your picture. Use a wooden fence list look171 drew and clamp it to the plywood top at mid-center of the router bit. You can fine-tine the placement by loosening 1 clamp slightly and moving the fence.
Using the above method - the "top" surface of your wood being routed will now be laying upside down when it is being machined. You'll just have to keep that in mind as it will be opposite your normal operations.