Issue with Toilet - PPOT Braintrust
 

I'm pretty good with basic plumbing, but this one is puzzling me. We bought this toilet @5 years ago. It is low flow / dual flush. It is the guest / hallway bathroom so we rarely use it. About 6 months ago we both noticed a stale 'urine' smell near the toilet. My wife is OCD Mrs clean and is very detailed when she does. So I cleaned the top tank and added a few drops of bleach, but there really wasn't any smell from there. I set the water level in the tank = OK. The seal on bottom is not leaking, no smell from there.

Here is something that is odd and unusual. The water level in the bowl is lower than in the past. So I removed the tank lid, flushed and watched the flow of water into the fill tube. It was strong, continous until the float shut the feed off. I raised the float level just above the max and did several flushes but water level in bowl remains the same.

So, I filled a separate container with water and slowly poured in the bowl, raising the level slightly. I then watched as the water drained back to the lower level. See pix below.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1672704063.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1672704063.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1672704063.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1672704063.jpg

So something has changed, the bowl water level is @1" lower than it should be, and possibly exposing the sewer gasses from below. We have 3 toilets, on a 1 level ranch home. The other two have no issues with smell or bowl water level.

I'm at a loss, as to why the bowl water level is lower fo some reason, and is draining back when I add just a little bit of water and the smell. What say y'all?

I have never used or seen a black toilet .... mebbe it's Satanic? Are the others black ;)?

Did you clean the water inlet holes? I once heard that a clogged sewer vent can result in low water but I don't see how.

If the water level is controlled by the inlet valve...turn the adjustment clockwise to raise the water level

A full turn will result in about an inch level.

The only black toilet in the house. Matches the black sink counter top, modern decor. No water backing up in fill tube when the line is pouring in. Again, I can add water manually to the bowl water level but it starts draining almost immediately to the now lower level.

Could a partially clogged trap cause a siphon?

No trap way under there, trap is part of the toilet.


Check your vent. Maybe its fill with leaves or a dead animal trying to stay warm?

I thought that too but I don't understand the physics of that.

Check it’s not partially blocked.
Our downstairs half-bath head does what you are describing after one of the kids drops too much paper. It’ll flush a bit slower but then it settles with the level a bit lower.

A little quality time with a plunger has it back to normal.

thinking about the times when you were feed beer through a tube back in college. The hole up top is the vent. If the vent is clogged (depending on how bad?), the water lever will eventually come back up to normal.

Crack in the toilet? But not sure how that wouldn't be evident. And the stale pee smell is weird since it looks like it's got enough water to block any fumes from the sewer.

Maybe pop it off and put a new wax ring on just in case? Messy job, but easy.

Try replacing the little fill flexible fill pipe/line.

Or at least examine it for any clogging or damage.

The other possibility is the vent pipe that runs the gases out to your roof. Not sure how to check that but worth checking....

Get the ladder out and a flash light. Have some one flush and keep an eye out or block the vent with hand, try and feel for slight vacuum. Be careful on the way up and down. I fail to understand the pee smell. Maybe a cracked bowl. Steve is right on this.

All the search results I see mention the same suggestions above - a clog, a vent issue, or a crack in the toilet.

I also learned something - "Contrary to popular belief, the plunger is NOT meant to force a clog down the drain. Plungers are meant to be used to create suction in the toilet trap, causing the blockage to break up and then flow down the drain when the plunger is pulled out of the bowl. Pushing hard on a plunger usually just blows out the wax seal between the toilet and the flange. Then the toilet has to be pulled and resealed."

Like this? ;)

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZTJVn3vso8k" title="How to Clear a Clogged Plumbing Vent | This Old House" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I'd suspect a crack either in the trap or down by the wax ring. If small enough, it could seep out slowly enough to dry up and leave a slight uring smell.

Thanks guys

Im with Marv's guess.

I suspect that the smell is from incomplete flushing, aka back-wash.
The system is not completely eliminating the urine and it builds up and smells.
Get rid of that complicated $80 flush mechanism.
It is not working well and will only cause
more problems.
Convert the toilet back to a conventional flapper-style.
it's easy to do and should cost less than $30
but you will have to remove the tank to do it.

EDIT I just re-read the OP and the above diagnosis would not
explain the lower static water level.
That lower level could only be caused by a crack in the toilet
allowing water to drain to the current level (unlikely, never seen that before)
or caused by excessive syphoning.
That could be why the above comments about venting are relevant.

I would still get rid of that POS water saving flush system

Check the grounding strap.

I've used these for at least 40 years now. I keep this one ready if I need a spare.
Works on water pressure for the adjustable fill height. So simple to install...just this one part and a flapper.
No more float needed.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1672776264.jpg

Call me crazy or whatever, but I sit to pee. I'd rather do that than get pee all over the room. A friend was on some meds once that turned his pee orange or some other color. He was shocked to see where all the pee actually went. He started sitting after that. I'm just lazy and want to take a load off.

Black toilet? We had one in my house in the 70's, it matched the black sink and black shower stall.

How long has it been since the shower in the bathroom has been used?

I occasionally have a similar issue in a seldom used bathroom. Toilet level drops and when the unit is flushed I can actually hear noise from the shower drain. Run the shower for a few minutes, and the issue goes away.

I suspect the trap on the shower is drying out? Don't know how it all works, but will only take a few minutes to test.

Your vent line between where this is and the stack is plugged. Either a bird or something has made a nest and plugged it up. When the toilet flushes, since there is effectively no venting on the sewer side of your toilet (and P trap - the curves under the bowl), the inertia of the water flowing down continues to pull the fluid with it until if sucks air from the bathroom to break the siphon. Since the water level in the P trap is low enough to allow it to suck air, the smell you are getting is sewer gasses coming back into your house.

This has nothing to do with the valves in the tank and everything to do with your vent stack and the related vents.

Look at level 2 in this scenario… if that blue vent line between the toilet and the vent stack plugged up, you would have your exact problem.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1672824539.jpg

The true test would be to unmount the toilet and do a bench test to find the natural water level in the bowl without influence from vent lines.

Just listen to this. This is your problem. The vent is plugged somewhere.
Don't overcomplicate things.

Best
Les

Interesting....I didn't think of that. Will investigate today, I'm off work.

My house is a one level ranch style. 3 full baths, 1 at each end, the center hallway unit is the toilet with the issue

Agreed, and if your stack is plugged this will still cause your issue. If the stack is plugged, it’s using a shower or sink drain as your vent and the stinky smells are coming in.

Think about the rate when a toilet flushes vs. a sink or shower. That sudden fast rate is faster than a plugged vent can match.

A simple test is to actually blow the shower p-trap (or sink) out so there is no water in it, then flush your toilet. If it has the correct water level (because the shower or sink is your new vent) you’ve proven the vent is plugged.