Pelican Parts Forums - What's inside your 13+ year old water heater

Pelican Parts Forums (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/)

- Off Topic Discussions (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/)

- - What's inside your 13+ year old water heater (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/1133375-whats-inside-your-13-year-old-water-heater.html)

What's inside your 13+ year old water heater

Not surprised at all the silt and rust but am surprised it never comes out of the faucet. Always happy with Dewalt quality. That saw has had a hard life cutting up a lot of 911s.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1674311290.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1674311290.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1674311290.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1674311290.jpg

That's why you need to flush out your water heater now and then. I do mine a few times a year.

.

Interesting. I always thought the inside of a water heater with glass like a thermos.

What condition was the annode rod in? Usual interval is to replace every 3-4 years.

It was 90% corroded away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A930Rocket (Post 11902919)

Interesting. I always thought the inside of a water heater with glass like a thermos.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1674406426.jpg
I'm not sure if that's glass like you're thinking or fiber glass or what.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6 (Post 11902998)

It was 90% corroded away.

The water heater in the house that we bought is 10-12 years old, and we're on a well with moderately hard water. I'm assuming there's sediment and hard water scale in the bottom of the tank and a similarly eroded anode.

I've been trying to talk my wife into replacing it, but we're holding off for some reason. I think we're going to end up with one of the new hybrid electric water heaters.

https://pathmakerplumbing.com/why-dont-water-heaters-last-as-long-as-they-used-to/

Quote:

A cursory search of Google will tell you that the average lifespan of a water heater is 8-11 years. While one shouldn’t believe everything that’s stated on the internet there is some truth to this statement. But only some.When I first started my plumbing career in the 90’s I remember removing water heaters that were installed in the 1950 and 60’s.
Some of those were still heating water the day I removed them. I don’t see water heaters that are still working 30 or 40 years later anymore. Very rarely will I find one that is still kicking after 20 years. But that doesn’t have to be the case.Much to the chagrin of conventional wisdom water heater manufacturers haven’t cheapened the quality of the units produced these days.They really do still “make ‘em like they used to”.With the constant threat of lawsuits these days they may even be making them better. But the problem doesn’t lie in how modern water heaters are made. The problem lies with how they are installed and maintained, or more appropriately, how they aren’t installed and maintained.There are five layers of protection water heaters have against failure and leakage.

The first two are provided from the manufacturer.

First, is the anode rod. The anode rod is a long piece of metal which runs almost the full length of the water heater and its job is to disintegrate from the reactive materials and electric current in the water BEFORE your tank does. In most areas and for many water conditions they last about five years before they are completely depleted. If you read the manual that comes with your water heater you will see the manufacturer recommend that the anode be inspected at least annually for deterioration.

Second is the glass lining. Just imagine the inside of your water heater tank being glazed like a piece of pottery. This is a similar process for protecting the steel of your tank. Once the anode rod deteriorates, this glass lining is the only thing preventing the tank from rusting out. On its own, this lining doesn’t last very long.

The other layers of protection are provided by the installer of the water heater and mandated by most plumbing codes.

The primary one is from proper piping connection. Dielectric unions provide a buffer zone between the steel of the water heater tank and the copper piping which connects the tank to the rest of the plumbing system. When steel and copper are connected and water run through them they begin to share electrons at a rapid rate. We refer to this sharing of electronic bonds as corrosion. Dielectric unions/connections are often overlooked or ignored by installers to the detriment of the water heaters longevity.

The fourth layer of protection is also provided by your water heater installer. In many scenarios a water heater is required to have a thermal expansion tank. If you have a pressure reducing valve, or a back check valve at your meter (most municipalities do) you are required by code to have a thermal expansion tank. This device gives a safe place for the extra volume created by heating water to go. Without this device, every time the water heater turns on to reheat the stored water, it will produce excess pressure/volume which is a stress on the water heater, water piping, and fixtures attached to it (toilets, washing machine hoses, ice maker, etc.).

The fifth layer of protection is provided by you, the operator of the heater. Again, referring to that handy manual which the manufacturer provided you will find all water heaters should be flushed out and drained to remove build up and sediment at least annually. Some manufacturers recommend this every six months! This not only keeps the water heater at full heating capacity, it also prevents minerals and deposits from attaching to the inside of the tank and solidifying causing future damage.Unfortunately most of the water heaters I see these days are improperly installed. BIg box stores and do it yourselfers just don’t have the know how of a licensed professional. As a result a water heater that should be running for 15 to 20 years is dead and gone in only ten. Just because its heating water and not leaking does NOT ensure a plumbing fixture is installed correctly, especially a water heater. The manufacturer recommendations and the municipal codes are there to not only keep people safe but also to ensure they get the full benefit of a properly installed unit.

https://www.waterheaterrescue.com/water-heaters-101/Inside-A-hot-water-heater.html

Quote:

Almost all water heaters have been made the same way for the past 60 years. They construct a steel tank, then bond vitreous glass to the inside of it to keep it from rusting. There are variations in manufacturing quality, however, so some tanks might have a better glass lining than others. And there is always a small amount of steel exposed, due to limitations in the coating process.

https://www.bijlibachao.com/water-heaters/coating-storage-water-heater-thermoplastic-stainless-steel-enamel-coating-glasslined.html
I think this link may be mostly correct, but think there may be some small mistakes in the text.
I think most tanks are steel, and then lined to protect the steel. I don't think the tanks that are lined are stainless.

Quote:

Various brands market their products in different ways which is why people get confused between which is what. It happens sometimes that there are two products having the same kind of coating but the names which are used for them by the manufacturers are different, so people think that the two coatings are different from each other, which is not the case in reality.

The major brands of storage water heaters are listed here “Comparison of various brands of Water Heaters/Geysers on BEE star rating in India”. In these brands, the different names of the coatings are as follows:

1. Porcelain Enamel Glass Lined Tank

2. Glasslined Coated Inner Tank

3. Vitreous Enamel Coated Tank

4. Blue Silicon Enamel Coated Tank

Moreover, there are a few companies (like AO Smith) which market their products with patented technology of storage tank coating with a different name, but apart from a few modifications, these all are same.

Apart from the Enamel or Glasslined coating, some manufacturers use Polymer coatings. Polymers are synthetic materials that are applied on top of the metal to protect it from corrosion.
What do these names mean actually?

In order to protect stainless steel from corrosion, the inner surface of the storage tank is fused with a layer of processed glass. Glass coating is known by various names, which makes it confusing at times to understand. Making a glass coating for any material is an elaborate process, but to have a basic idea, glass powders are applied onto the metal and when heated on a furnace, a glass coating is obtained on the surface of the desired metal. It is a very effective technique which provides tremendous resistance against corrosion. Apart from this, polymer coatings are also done on the surface of the storage tanks to combat corrosion. This again is a very effective way of providing strong corrosion resistance and insulation. Polymers are synthetic materials (just like paints) that are applied on metal to protect it from corrosion. The method of application of enamel/glass-lining is different from polymer coating, but the objective of both is to prevent corrosion.

Although glass lined storage tanks are widely used for corrosion protection in the storage tanks of the water heaters, still glass-lining can be damaged on persistent use for a long period of time. This kind of coatings cannot be guaranteed to give full protection against corrosion for a very long time. So theoretically, polymer coatings are better than glass-lining in case of corrosion resistance.

I think it is possible to get water heaters that have unlined stainless tanks, but i'm not sure. This was educational.

Thanks for posting Steve! I'm going to make up a maintence schedule and tape it to the heater. I think my old one would have lasted for 20 if I had properly maintained it. This new one is awfully nice so want to keep it that way.

Note to self. Do maintenance on 10 year old water heater at home.

These are some videos that I watched a year or two ago that seem like they would fit this thread nicely.

<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/yF_dLlQ6RIo" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bb35cQuJ_y0" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I can't find the video that I previously watched on anodes and anode replacement. I seem to remember there are some that are made out of a different metal that I think was supposed to be an upgrade. Also, because it's not unusual for there to NOT be several feet of space above a water heater for you to thread a several foot long stiff rod down through the top, there are anodes that are like a string of sausages so they are flexible and can be fed into the top of the water heater.

<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2IUNIUZz4Os" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Much of that deposit is bacteria based. There are 2 types of bacteria, planctonic and sessile.

Planctonic bacteria float around in water and is fairly easy to kill with bleach, biocides, oxidizers, etc.

Sessile bacteria attached to surfaces and is very difficult to kill or remove by flushing a tank or using bleach… you need to mechanically remove it. These colonies are called biofilms and remarkably the bacteria work together to create environments suitable to each species.

Don’t believe me?

Do you brush your teeth or just use mouthwash? Plaque is exactly this, a biofilm and tooth decay is the result of bacteria. Ever 6-12 months, you get a dental hygienist to scrape off the biofilm that you can’t get with regular brushing.

Another data point… swimming pools are loaded with chlorine- way more than we use to kill planctonic bacteria in industrial applications. Ever notice that the walls of the pools are ‘slimy’? That’s the biofilm. The filters are also loaded with that nasty biofilm that thrives because of the flux of bacterial fool sources.

You can’t clean a hot water heater. Flushing them accomplishes little.

Here on the side of a volcano we have a massive silicate problem. Those residues just laugh off vinegar or CLR - it's either HF acid or a hammer to get them fixed. The lore in town is that, unless the tank's been flushed regularly, don't even try. The valve may well get stuck open.

And expected life now is 8-11y? E gads - we've been here 11y and it wasn't new when we moved in...

Just one more thing to pile atop my "homeowner anxiety" heap. I know that renting usually sucks, but as homeowner, sometimes I just want my landlord to come fix it. -- Oh wait, I'm the landlord!

How long will an instant hot water system or a heat pump last? In the real world that is.

Have a 17yo Takagi, works great. Used w/ water softener.

Vince

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyl (Post 11904169)

How long will an instant hot water system or a heat pump last? In the real world that is.

With our sliicate load in the water, plumbers up here are "tut-tutting" the instant-water thing. Whether they're right, or just old-fashioned - I don't know anyone that's had one long enough to even prove competitive with a tank.

I'm completely talking out of my butt, but in the boiler world water systems would periodically get "de-scaled". I wonder if these domestic setups could get that treatment? At least the ones with "normal" water...

...been down the tube-hole a few times and there's one builder/toober that focuses on hyper-efficient "high-performance" tech for new builds - Matt Risinger - now I'm accepting that his videos are often sponsored, he does put up a good talk on tankless water, heat pumps and hard-core air conditioning (warm/cold/humidity/filtering) technologies.

Then again, supposedly cold showers are super good for you! Yeah, that's it!

My turn with the joy of a malfunctioning water heater.
A week ago Friday, we were on the way out of town for the granddaughter's birthday.
The wife remarks - The shower isn't very warm, is that because it's so cold outside?
No, that's not why. I didn't have time to mess with it, so I went downstairs, the breaker was tripped. I left it tripped, turned off the main valve to the house, and we left.
Came back Sunday, turned on the water and drained a couple gallons out of the heater. A little crud, but nothing serious. I reset the breaker and everything was back to normal.
Yesterday, cooler than normal shower but not cold. The breaker wasn't tripped. Had to work.
So today I tore into it, the bottom element had no continuity. I drained the tank, which took forever, but of course I couldn't get the element out with the tools I have. I wanted to pull it to match it up with the one I'd be buying. Went to Menards, bought a element, and a wrench.

Much to my surprise, when I unscrewed the element, water poured out. Turns out there is crud in the bottom of the water heater, it's just too big to come out the drain.
Any idea how to get the crud out? It's not to the level of the bottom element, but it's close. I don't have a functional shop vac.

For now, I just put the replacement element in, filled the tank, and turned the breaker back on. The crud is tomorrow's problem.

Answering my own question, but this seems like a lot of work.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/hB1F_T7ZmxM" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockfan4 (Post 11920667)

He does that every six months and gets that much calcium out? Wow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjohnson (Post 11904403)

His videos are pretty good. I've watched a bunch. And he's in my neck of the woods.

Great point! We need to replace our AC. My plan had been to get a very efficient heat pump, but I just realized, that a lot of time that I run the AC it's because the humidity is high. I could get a built in dehumidifier and probably run the AC a lot less. I'll keep that in mind when the time comes (sooner rather than later as we are running on borrowed time, I'm sure).

We also need to replace the water heater. My current plan is to go with one of the hybrid models that includes the heat pump.