70 year old breaker box. 80 Amp breaker to 220 dryer

[Bob Kontak]

Good pal's recently passed Dad's house has an old ass breaker box called a Bulldog. He says 70 years old. Bulldog Touchmatic box from the early 50's?

The two 110 circuits for the dryer have two 40 amp breakers. That seems excessive but how does the circuitry work for proper function and safety.

[908/930]

Two 40A single pole vs one double pole 40A breaker, not the proper way of getting 220v, still rated at 40A though. Pretty sure to pass electrical code they need to be joined together, right now if one circuit tripped you still have 110v 40A going to the dryer, not sure what that would do.

[dad911]

Time to get it changed out:

https://nonprofithomeinspections.org/what-are-pushmatic-bulldog-electrical-panels/

...... In addition, the breakers had labels that would change from “on” to “off” when the breaker was pushed, and in some cases the label would say “off” but the breaker was still engaged. Other problems with the circuit breakers included failure to trip when they were supposed to, and arching of the contacts within the breaker which caused them to weld together. All these concerns are considered to be potential shock and fire hazards.

[Alan A]

The problem - at least here - is that if you get an electrician in to touch it it all has to be redone to code. Which can mean ripping out a LOT of stuff and gets spendy fast.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by 908/930

Two 40A single pole vs one double pole 40A breaker, not the proper way of getting 220v, still rated at 40A though. Pretty sure to pass electrical code they need to be joined together, right now if one circuit tripped you still have 110v 40A going to the dryer, not sure what that would do.

I worked on a lot of systems wired like that back in the day, though they were all fused. I don't think I ever saw one with breakers wired that way. The usual failure mode was the heating elements, which used both circuits to get 220, would overheat and sag until they touched the housing. They would short out and blow one of the fuses. The motor, which was powered by one of the 110 circuits, would keep running. It would turn the drum all day, but no heat. I cannot explain why it would usually blow the fuse that was NOT powering the motor, but it seemed to do that more often than not.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Good pal's recently passed Dad's house has an old ass breaker box called a Bulldog. He says 70 years old. Bulldog Touchmatic box from the early 50's?........

Originally Posted by Alan A

The problem - at least here - is that if you get an electrician in to touch it it all has to be redone to code. Which can mean ripping out a LOT of stuff and gets spendy fast.

When he goes to sell the house, it will be more costly to escrow money and delay closings when home inspector flags it. Unless the house is a teardown(or a burndown), it's usually better to fix now than later.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I worked on a lot of systems wired like that back in the day, though they were all fused. .....

Bet you found quite a few pennies behind the fuses

[john70t]

Originally Posted by Alan A

The problem - at least here - is that if you get an electrician in to touch it it all has to be redone to code. Which can mean ripping out a LOT of stuff and gets spendy fast.

New code might involve 4-plug 220v outlets. Plus the wiring to them. Plus the breaker.
Hopefully the box itself is rated to accept new breakers....

It's probably all in the basement, so costs might be negligible if all wiring is exposed and easy to work on.

[Bob Kontak]

Thanks for the input. He clearly needs a new box.

Holy smokes - I posted this thread twice. Ill put a disregard post in the other one. Sorry.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by dad911

Bet you found quite a few pennies behind the fuses

The fuses for the 220 appliances were cartridge fuses in a tandem socket. But yes, I have seen some creative engineering in fuse panels.
I found a lot of blown screw-in fuses being due to the screw that holds the socket together and is the center contact for the fuse. When the screw gets loose they cause the connection to overheat and melt the fuse link.

[john70t]

He probably won't be able to sell it without that upgrade and an inspection.
Pay now or pay later. Get 'er done son.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I worked on a lot of systems wired like that back in the day, though they were all fused. I don't think I ever saw one with breakers wired that way. The usual failure mode was the heating elements, which used both circuits to get 220, would overheat and sag until they touched the housing. They would short out and blow one of the fuses. The motor, which was powered by one of the 110 circuits, would keep running. It would turn the drum all day, but no heat. I cannot explain why it would usually blow the fuse that was NOT powering the motor, but it seemed to do that more often than not.

Because they weren't handle tied. Any double pole breaker must be tied, I don't care how old the system is.

RE: rewiring, only that which is actually touched in order to repair/upgrade has to meet present day code. But you might want to do some basic upgrades.