They do:

https://www.dtm.com/en

At least as stock as NASCAR(sucks)

so maybe merc is ready to admit the no side pod design sucks.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/russell-ready-to-sacrifice-part-of-f1-2023-for-long-term-mercedes-progress/10440988/

I thought the sidepods on the Merc looked just like the Red Bull pods. For sure the Merc is in trouble this year.,

Merc needs an Adrian Newey before it's too late.

Hammy knows best (or so he thinks) about car design:

"Last year, there were things I told them. I said the issues that are with the car," Hamilton said.

"I've driven so many cars in my life. I know what a car needs. I know what a car doesn't need. I think it's really about accountability."
Hamilton continued: "It's about owning up and saying, 'Yeah, you know what? We didn't listen to you. It's not where it needs to be and we've got to work'.

https://www.eurosport.com/formula-1/lewis-hamilton-claims-mercedes-didn-t-listen-to-his-concerns-over-formula-one-car-design-for-new-sea_sto9483216/story-amp.shtml

^Thats how you endear yourself to the team.

You win and lose as a team . Once finger pointing starts you lose trust and confidence . I am not surprised Hammy is pointing fingers .

No one doubts Hammy's driving ability. I doubt his engineering and aerodynamics knowledge is that vast. Just a guess.

Michael Schumacher was known to provide the engineers perfect feedback and the information needed to make the car better and faster. Maybe Hamilton has some of that. If he has a bad season he may well just retire if he has lost confidence in Mercedes.

One could say that Michael was responsible for developing the car that Hammy won so many races in after moving to MB.

Hammy's been like this since his days at McLaren. When it went downhill there he blamed the team relentlessly.
FF to his time at MB and he's done the same. The constant questioning about strategy, blame game on the radio, even if it results in a win. He thanks them when its a win and says poop like, we win as a team or whatever. But if its a loss he doesn't share responsibility.

His followers would never acknowledge this though.

LOL
the worst thing about dumb people is they are
not smart enough to know they're dumb
He's not even the best driver on his team,
and he thinks he's smarter than the really smart engineers.

I've driven lots of cars in my life too,
does that mean I can be an F1 designer?


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678438467.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678438467.jpg

When Schumi went to Ferrari the car was junk.
He was known to be in the garage past 10 pm working
with the mechanics trying to fix the car.
Just him and the mechanics.

Same when he went to Mercedes,
he helped fix the car that created the appearance
that Hamilton was all that.

There was one other very important
common denominator ....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678439038.jpg

wikipedia

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2HhhWzrR3Wg" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I hear you but I think that was more to bond with the guys and curry favor with the team, than to "redesign" a car. I don't think Lewis staying in the garage till midnight in his parachute pants will help in any way to resign a flawed Aero concept. It's not like he's gonna help design or glue new sidepods on, or blow on the floor to see if the car porpoises less ;-) Same with Lauda, he was a great driver and a no BS leader of sorts but I sincerely doubt either of those guys knew anythign about modern aero calculations...

To me the bottom line is: the curent F1 rules/spending limits/tokens favor getting it right the first time and incrementally improve that concept each year. When Mercedes did their new engine with split turbo thingamabob, they probably got 2-3 WC out of it and kept winning after that because they had a leg up and it took forever to catch them up.

This time - another big rule change, they went with "bottom feeder flat fish sidepods" and lost. Badly. And now they are kinda F$$%ed. They will likely be behind for 2 more seasons unless they pull out a miracle concept out of their....collective genius. I am actually impressed Management there decided to nip this in the bud now. Could be smart to revert to a 2y ago design philosophy real quick...

Meanwhile Redbull is not standing still and will refine their excellent aero (without Max hanging out with the mechanics) - though their penalties in wind tunnel time are giving Aston and Ferrari *some* hope for next year.

If they reverted to a 2 year old design the car wouldn't pass tech. Last year saw the introduction of a new rules package; initially, it looked like Ferrari and McLaren had a leg up on the competition. The 3 day test put everyone in their places.

(IIRC, at the photo launch of the new 22 car, Merc showed a car that had a more traditional sidepod arrangement but at the 3 day test, the sidepods were gone, the floor was low to the ground and the car was flippin' and floppin' all the way down the straight..

no, no, I meant sidepod-wise (only)... "Traditional" sidepods like 2 y ago, sorry for the confusion. Take a page off Aston and copy from the best... I do realize this has implications all over the aero and it's not simple, but stopping now takes guts... That's what Toto is paid the big bucks for ;-) Make a call, continue and cross your fingers or cut the gangrene now... I tend to agree (I'm sure he cares) as they had one year to fix it, then a winter to pursue it, and it's still crap... Part of me is happy that the "ugly flat fish" sidepod is a bad solution, as the (other) cars finally look great again. We've gone thru years of stinkers with the narrow track, tall rear wing, broken nose, shlong nose, remember all that ? The ferrari and Aston look amazing now..

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1678745664.jpg

This is what I see when the Merc comes out of the garage

ha ha! I just watched Animal House again last night! "From now on your name is Flounder!"

I had no idea that oscar winning actress, Michelle Yeoh's longtime boyfriend is Jean Todt!!!

Do you not watch the F1 pre-race shows? She used to walk the grid with Jean very often.