My Least Favorite Tool
 

Indispensable when needed. Only needed, however, when things have gone wrong. I had to break it out this week, which is something I have not had to do for years. Anyone else unfortunate enough to have had to employ one of these? Anyone else know what it is?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1679881792.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1679881792.jpg

Bullet puller.

Put the round in the end with the hole to grip the case (bullet pointing inside) and smack the other end on a horizontal surface like a hammer.

Yup. In this case, the need to do so elicited by some rather surprising, and disconcerting results.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1679883562.jpg

I have been unable to get the preferred bullet for this rifle, an early Savage 99 in .300 Savage, for over three years now. It really likes the Sierra 150 grain round nose. I've fired literally hundreds of these through this rifle, propelled by a rather moderate load of IMR4895 that pushes them to about 2,300-some-odd fps. Depending upon the manual chosen, we should ostensibly be able to top 2,600 fps with this bullet and powder. Some manuals say 2,700 fps. I get excellent case life as well, another really good indicator of low pressure. All was well, until I finally ran put of those bullets, and went with something else.

My new choice was the Speer 150 grain spitzer. So, as I do, I established the maximum OAL (constrained by the magazine on these rifles), adjusted the seating die accordingly, and backed off the charge about 10% (in this case, 4 grains). Everything else remained the same. Very first shot separated the case head - yikes!!!

I only had five rounds loaded, as I do when switching anything at all. So only had to pull four bullets. The rifle seems fine - I fired about 20 of my old load with the Sierra round noses with no issues at all after this, just as a sanity check.

Something is up, obviously. This is why we always reduce loads if anything, anything at all is changed, even just primers. I cannot imagine what might have happened if i had just blithely seated the new bullet over the old charge, even if the bullets are the same weight.

This cartridge - the old .300 Savage - has this "reputation". Wildly varying pressures with seemingly similar components. Something about the short OAL and how it makes the base of the bullet protrude below the neck of the case, into the powder column. The 150 grain spitzer is necessarily longer than the same weight round nose, which is why I have always preferred the round nose in this chambering.

Anyway, back to the drawing board. I'll drop the charge another 10%, break out the chronograph, and try again. Pretty cool old Savage Model 99, definitely worth the effort.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1679883562.jpg

I'm soooo very tempted to PARF this thread :D

Be safe out there Higgins! Do you ever test out your new loads by firing with a string, etc.?

I'm amazed that they come out that easily

<iframe width="781" height="439" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lfWAoBqq-0c" title="Using a Hammer Style Bullet Puller" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Imagine trying to explain this without video.

"okay hear me out - you take this unfired cartridge and put it inside this hammer, see? THen you hit it really hard on the table..."

"Riiiiight"

I have gotten in the habit of inspecting all my bottleneck cases - I can "almost always" spot the ring before the case head separates, in any case I scrap the whole lot of cases when I see the ring, separate a head or split a neck.

Since I got a press puller I hardly use my inertia puller.

I feel your pain on bullet availability. Not only are several of my favorite bullets unavailable, I'm getting very low on IMR 4895. :mad:

I thought it was a bicycle tire pump!

The bright ring Porchdog mentions is known as "incipient head separation". I found a couple of pics of what it looks like on the outside of the case, and what is happening on the inside:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1679931316.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1679931316.jpg

A few different things can cause this.

If there is excessive headspace between the chamber and the cartridge, the firing pin will knock the cartridge forward in the chamber when it hits it. Upon firing, the case mouth and forward part of the case, being very thin, expand to grab the chamber walls, sealing the chamber. The rising chamber pressure then pushes the base of the cartridge rearwards until the base hits the bolt face and stops. The brass has to stretch somewhere to do this, so it stretches in the thin part right in front of the solid head. Even low pressure loads will do this if there is excessive headspace. And, yes, the cases are ruined if this happens even once.

The other way this can happen is through excessive pressures. In this case, the cartridge is well supported and in firm contact at the base and at the shoulder. The excessive pressure serves to "stretch" the chamber, and the brass. This is the more dangerous situation of the two, as it can lead to failure of the rifle's action if pressures are too excessive.

This was only the second firing on this brass. According to my manuals, it was a "starting" load for this bullet and powder combination. But, well, therein lies another pitfall of playing with obsolete calibers - one manual's "starting" load is often higher than another manual's "maximum" load. With the same bullet. "Modern", or current cartridges have far more consistent reloading data available.

I know some of you are probably wondering why we just don't reduce the charge to the point where it "has to be safe". Well, slow burning smokeless rifle powders are kinda strange that way. Drop the charge too much, and pressures go through the ceiling. These powders are dependent, to a degree, on having some percentage of the case full, reducing airspace, and thereby reducing the amount of powder exposed to the flame front. These powders burn "progressively", like a fuse, until we put them in a situation where all of it can be exposed to the flame front all at once.

Some have called this phenomena "secondary explosion effect". The primer actually starts the bullet into the leade, where it stops or slows down because the powder is not yet pushing it, then the full volume of powder lights behind it and pressures spike. Lots of blown up rifles out there that were under loaded with slow burning progressive rifle powders.

So, yeah, from here it's just "proceed with caution". I have a load that it shoots quite well, and provides over a dozen reloads on its cases. This indicates that the rifle is not at fault, in that it does not have excessive headspace.

I can safely drop the charge a little bit more, so we'll load a few and shoot them over the chronograph. That will give me a very good indication as to whether or not this combination just added up to excessive pressures. Unfortunately, the old Model 99 is a kind of "springy" action, and is well known for these anomalies.

And, no, I've never used a string. I'll just see if I can get one of my kids to shoot it... ;)

I was going to answer with a soil test sampler...

Exactly. The band was stumped without the video.

Lead singer:cool:

Drummer:D

I had no idea.

Some of were deciding which Pelican or politician qualified for least favorite

Jeff always posts good documentaries!

Nobody likes a head separation. They can be disturbing and end up with a projectile stuck in the bore or a face full of hot gas, brass specks etc.

I run into many beginners who can't tell the sizing ring where the die stops from the halo. Some do not even know what to look for, feel for let alone measure case wall thickness.

I use the Helen Keller Precision Braille Halo Finder for spot checks. It works well as an early warning system. I have the large case and small case versions. Indespensible tools to spot check and "catch" a Halo from inside the case body.

Or I can pull out the ball micrometer and measure case thickness which takes more time and doesnt get to the bottom of the case web well.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1679979487.jpg

The 223 case has a double halo and is at end of life.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1679979504.jpg

Jeff your kinetic hammer is looking a little droopy. I have gone through two in about 30 years so I can attest to the durability of plastic.


It is fun when your buddy is standing around and has never seen a kinetic puller utlized. A good whack and your buddy is thinking what on earth ? One of my friends refuses to stay in the garage when I have have to whack a few bullets out. He gets pale and very unsettled.

The shell holder trick does work better than the supplied collet for rimless and handgun cases like 45 acp and 9mm.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1679979935.jpg

My first thought too lol.
But my lungs probably don't get to 90psi anymore.

I'm not sure why my tool is so droopy (now now, guys...). It's even drooping the wrong way. One would think it would bend the shaft the other way, considering the direction of impact.

I like the shell holder adaptation. I've never had to use this thing on rimless pistol rounds, but that's a good one to keep in my hip pocket if I ever need to do that.

My halo finder must have come off of the "bargain table" - it's just a piece of baling wire bent over. Thankfully, I have very seldom had to use it (I keep losing it anyway, so thankfully new ones are readily available...).

I tend to keep my loads well below the threshold where I might have to check for this very often. I learned long ago that "maximum" loads in hunting rifles just don't make for any noticeable increase in killing power, but they can lead to some serious hassles in the field in the wrong climate. Just not worth it. Beyond that, my self imposed rule of thumb is to only trim cases three times. Keep reloading them until they need the fourth trimming, then discard them. This policy has served me well over the years.

An interesting thread but you'd think there would be a better (safer?) way to disassemble a bullet.

They make collet type removers but they get expensive when the die body is one cost and the collets are caliber specific for additional cost. For rifles they work well without damaging the projectile.

Handgun bullets tend to be rounded or tapered so the kinetic hammer type is a good option.

Its something that is not used very often. The kinetic hammers are safe. I have never heard of a round discharging. As Jeff mentioned when you need it you want to have it and they are inexpensive.

About twenty five years ago a friend and I bought a stupid amount of surplus Yugo 8mm rounds. Half of them were cupronickel jacketed and steel core. We pulled the bullets, reduced the powder charge and replaced them with copper jacketed lead core SP projectiles. That factory sealed the bullets with asphaltum and was a ***** to break free after some 50 years sitting in a crate. We split the cost on a die with the collet puller. The kinetic hammer would not break the sealant free.

Not to hijack Jeffs thread.

Safe ammunition disposal is in interesting technique.

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^^ Jiffy-Pop