All the ways old people kill young enthusiasm for car culture

[sugarwood]

None of my other interests are filled so many with bitter, judgmental and critical people with massive chips on their shoulders.

Finally, someone from mainstream auto media called out this wretched behavior
The hissy fits thrown in the comments prove the article strikes a deep nerve .
Excellent article!

All the ways old people kill young enthusiasm for car culture


Here was what my friend with a 944 said about his experiences with 911 owners;

911 people are awful. There, I said it. They're just bad people. Like the time I took the admittedly ****ty beater 944 to the local Porsche club meetup right near my house, and pretty much the only thing any 911 person said to me was "hey your car is leaking coolant, you need to clean that up." Which it was a little, but he didn't offer to help, didn't offer a diagnosis, just said it to be a dick.

Honestly, the 928 people were a hell of a lot nicer and more fun to talk to. They seemed actually into working on their cars and aware of all the weirdnesses and quirks about them.

I kinda want to buy Panamera 4 just to take it to PCA gatherings to annoy the 911 dickheads. "Yeah, it's ugly. Yeah, it has four doors. Still goes around a track faster than your garage queen forum princess, and it's driveable in snow with four sets of skis inside. It also cost less than a clutch rebuild for a checkbook mechanic like you. Eat my cock."

Also, it's just 911 guys who have this level of dickbaggery. I can't think of any other car that engenders this level of A-holeness in its owners. Every other car has its share of fans and posters who are simply stupid, ill-informed, clueless, or wrong, but none that I am aware of has this many self-righteous A-holess.

The Rover forums are filled with people who frankly shouldn't own used expensive cars because they have no idea what they're doing, but they're not dicks about their cluelessness.

[Dantilla]

That was an awful lot of words that didn't say much.
Maybe there was an actual point towards the end, Didn't get that far.

Note to budding authors: State your main point up front, then back it up.
Starting with several paragraphs of blather does not hold the reader's attention.

[Sooner or later]

Another Sugarwood old people bad post.

[Nostril Cheese]

Since when are young people interested in cars these days?

I'm 43 and pretty much never encountered any kind of bad attitude from older car nuts. Nor have I ever dismissed any kid who was interested in whatever cool car I was driving (rare event).

[1990C4S]

For the tldr crowd:

Ideally, we would all reach out and mentor a young automotive enthusiast today—and I’m not talking about having tween-agers judge a concours, although that’s wonderful and necessary. I’m talking about reaching out to your ratty-looking neighbor kid with the slammed Jetta, the young fellow at work with the embarrassing stickers on his old G35, the one dude at the track day who is in everyone’s way. Share your passion and your positive outlook with them. Try to restrain your natural impulse to tell them how much better it used to be, or why we need to lay off on the bad behavior nowadays. Just support them.

[dheinz]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Finally, someone from mainstream auto media called out this wretched behavior
The hissy fits thrown in the comments prove the article strikes a deep nerve .
Excellent article!

All the ways old people kill young enthusiasm for car culture

Wow, the comment section could been right out of Pelican's PARF forum...

[RANDY P]

Legislation, a dying middle class and computers and virtual living (which is complete boring BS). It literally costs too much to be a car guy these days.

If I also add: BS Socialist commune beliefs : Living on top of one another and paying a lot for it and having nothing to show for it is 'cool' these days- like they did on the dumb show "Friends"

From the article:
They’re making less money,
they have access to less storage space,
they pay vastly more for insurance and registration.
The available pool of enthusiast-friendly cars, which teemed in my youth with everything from Plymouth Road Runners to five-speed Celicas, has dwindled to a creek trickle of overpriced used Miatas and Mustangs.

Toos cost more, as does labor. In some states, they have to pass smog and other vehicle inspections on a regular basis just to stay rolling.
To make matters worse, they no longer have a social infrastructure to support their hobby.
The cruise nights are gone.
Everybody’s at home with a screen.

rjp

[Norm K]

The author clearly doesn't know any real car guys. I, as with so many others here, know many, and the attitudes described by the author don't at all match many real-world experience I've encountered.

We older guys might not necessarily like the things young guys are doing to their cars, but we nonetheless appreciate the work and effort that goes in to doing those things.

I don't particularly care for lowriders, for example but I sure as scheisse appreciate and admire the work that goes into to building one. Certainly the craftsmanship and attention to detail on the higher end ones take a back seat to no other class of automobile. Just as impressive is the time and effort guys without unlimited resources put into their cars - and so I admire their cars just as much.

I'm quite certain that when my friends and I would show up in our Roadrunners, ass-end-jacked-to-the-sky-by-Gabriel-Hijackers, with Cragars and Mickey Thompson M50s jammed underneath, our rear side windows festooned with stickers of all the parts we'd added (and some we hadn't, of course), the 50s hot rodders we met probably hated what we'd done to our cars. Yet they accepted us, shared their knowledge, gave us advice and generally took us under their wing.

It's the very same thing any real car guy does today with fledgling and aspiring wrench-turners.

_

[RANDY P]

What Norm said.

I have a particular interest in certain types of cars, because I grew up with them, I wanted them as a kid, and I have limited time.

Kids, ricers and 'new car' people have little interest in older cars, and have no qualms making fun of them being 'slow and behind the times'- but, that seems fine and frankly IDGAF. It's not their generation, I get it.

If the new car people and ricers want to spend time showing each other who got the latest Chinese anodized aluminum underhood, more power to them. They say I'm behind the times, I say they have no taste.

One thing I have learned about car guys over the years: They aren't really adults- they just really old teenagers- but now with money. Cliques, beliefs, groups and all. You just to get in where you fit in, and live and let live.

rjp

[manbridge 74]

Baruth often has great things to say.

Keep in mind that he writes ABOUT the business of cars but is no longer directly involved in the day to day business of buying, selling and repairing cars. We see none of his observations where I’m at.

[RANDY P]

Originally Posted by Norm K

Just as impressive is the time and effort guys without unlimited resources put into their cars - and so I admire their cars just as much.
_

Especially this- I really couldn't care less about a big name open checkbook build done by a a pro shop with the latest in aftermarket gadgetry. I walk past them at shows, just don't care.

I really like the homemade stuff - a regular guy with a welder spending years cuz he's got no time or money but yet turned out killer.

rjp

[Mike Andrew]

I read the Hagerty article as well. Truthfully, not sure that he is spot on or dead wrong in his statements and conclusions. It seems to me that there is less car enthusiasm in young people these days but those who are enthusiasts are in deep. The reasons are myriad but the result is the same.
I agree with Norm that some of their cars are not my cup of tea but they are young and their tastes will likely change over time. It's incumbent upon us to welcome them and assist them as we can.I know that most of my car guys started as American Iron guys and evolved/matured into sports car owners. And many of us were lucky to have mentors who showed us the ropes. I was lucky enough to have one in my hood who answered lots of dumb questions and let me help him wrench on his cars. We need to pass that on.
Have a kid down the street who has an S10 that he is working on and tweaking. I was washing my 911 before storage and he popped by and we chatted cars for quite some time. I was surprised at his knowledge of cars in general. I offered him a ride in Spring when hibernation ends here. He jumped at the opportunity and I look forward to giving him a glimpse of what a 911 is capable of. Perhaps I will live long enough to see him posting here.

[1990C4S]

Space, legal restrictions, time, and money shortages, make car people less likely to be noticeable. I know lots of younger 'car guys'. They drive pretty normal cars (typically VW's) that no one would notice. They might have a chip, slightly lowered, new rims. You could pass it on the road and never notice it.

It's more about passion than what you own, or how you stand out from the crowd.

My local cruise night (pre-COVID) was half chromed out muscle cars, half newer cars that were basically stock. The two groups didn't really mingle.

Things change. I try not to judge.

[manbridge 74]

There are some sane, normal people commenting as seen below....


Mickthomas
In response to TomP
Wednesday

Well written. I am thankful that none of the groups or "car guys" that I've known over the past 40 years fall into this. Honest statement.
Everyone I know is open to the younger crowd, and shares everything. Just look at the forums we are a part of - whether its a "scout" page or a "honda" page etc. Everyone really tries to help and meet up.
So yeah, I guess I don't know who the bad actors are. Apparently they are out there, I'm just thankful that the hundreds of guys and gals I've known in the hobby don't act like elitist.

[Mark Henry]

My 19 year old is working for me, he's building a couple 914/4 engines right now, a couple of T1's and he's going to start his first 996 engine build in just over a weeks time. Of course this is under my watchful eye, but he's doing pretty good and learning.
At 16 he bought his first car, an '82 Audi coupe, he had a 914 project but at 6'-5" he decided it was too small for him. He's now having fun modding his 2007 Chevy cobalt SS.
His car choice may not be my choice, but I can respect him for that.

[manbridge 74]

Another commenter below that has learned the great wisdom: Car shows are mainly ninny festivals.

“I agree I've pretty well given up on car shows that give a trophy as it seems this type of show seems to attract the my car's better than anyone else's type of people. I own my old car because I like it. It doesn't matter that it's not a Mustang or a Chevelle ( both great cars but I like having something different ). I also get tired of hearing all these comments from guys who pay someone else to restore their cars. I do all my own work and in my humble opinion my car looks as nice as most and I know exactly how my engine and tranny were built.”

[sugarwood]

The real *holes are car guys who are arrogant know-it-all types.
They are constantly insulting people with the "wrong" car.

• Corvettes suck, Mustangs suck, Camaros suck.
• 70s cars suck. 80s cars suck. 90s cars suck. All modern cars suck.
• Porsche AG sucks. BMW AG sucks.
• Automatic cars all suck. PDK sucks. SMG sucks.
• EV sucks. Elon sucks.
• Magnus sucks
• Driving fast sucks. Driving slow sucks.
• Turbo sucks. 4-cyl sucks. V8 sucks.
• Front engine sucks. Mid engine sucks. Rear engine sucks.
• FWD sucks. RWD sucks. AWD sucks. 4WD sucks.
• Honda sucks. Nissan sucks. Subaru sucks. Ford sucks. GM sucks. Benz sucks. BMW sucks. Hyundai sucks.
• Stealerships suck. Your indy sucks.
• Hot hatch sucks. Land barge sucks. Lotus sucks for DD.
• DIY sucks. People who don't DIY suck.
• Yellow cars suck. Brown cars suck. 70s colors suck.
• Modern car colors suck. All 4 of them.
• Miatas are for hairdressers, Boxsters are for secretaries,
• BMW sucks. Old BMW suck. New BMW suck.
• GTI sucks. Focus RS sucks. Golf R sucks. BRZ sucks. New Supra sucks.
• Japanese cars all suck. WRX STI sucks. Ricers suck.
• Camber Tuner Modders Stance bros all suck
• Snowflakes suck. Millennials all suck. Anyone younger than me sucks.
• Everything sucks, except me and my car!

None of my other interests are filled so many with bitter, judgmental and critical people with massive chips on their shoulders.

[RANDY P]

So, why bother then?

If you want unity, maybe join a commune?

rjp

[creaturecat]

your "old guy" crap never ceases. does it?
i would think a "know-it-all" would realize it - when he acts like a jackass.

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by Nostril Cheese

Since when are young people interested in cars these days?

LOL, stop reading all that snowflake click-bait nonsense
Try getting out there and meeting car guys who are not your age.

Do, you really think these snowflakes don't turn wrenches?
They swap out suspensions, turbos, intercoolers, wheels, coilovers, and engines like their underwear.
They also swap out intakes, exhaust, and flash tune the cars as part of the overall build process.

Many years ago, I saw an ad for 2004 Subaru WRX STI.


Yeah, $21K for an Impreza? But it's had basically every performance part swapped out for an aftermarket improvement. I don't even know what half that **** is. According to that dyno sheet it makes 362hp.

Years ago I had an illuminating conversation with a young co-worker. Kid was just out of the army, and was really into his Honda (I forget what it was, maybe an Accord.) He and I chatted about all the mods he did to it, including some ludicrous audio system with multiple DVD screens in the headrests. I commented that I didn't understand why anyone would spend $15K+ plus modding an econo car to make it faster, when they could take that money and buy a used sports car that was already fast. His take was that it was cooler to mod a car to make it faster than a sports car (I didn't get into whether a ricer car could actually be "faster" than a dedicated sports car, but that wasn't the point. In his mind, something like a 363hp Accord is faster than a 300hp 911.) The idea is that "built > bought." As in, only old people buy a fast car, cool people build one.

As kids, we had the exact same underdog anti-establishment mindset. We all called it a “sleeper” car as we always dreamed about “putting a 454 into a Chevy Chevette” and “blowing the doors off some spoiled brat whose daddy bought for him”. Congrats, we are now the establishment. You and I don't think like that anymore. But lots of ricer kids do, and it's a dedicated car culture. An elite suburban town where old guys own "weekend Porsches" is not remotely representative sample of the 1000's tuner car kids now posting on IG and how to's on YouTube.

It's pure fantasy to think that car culture was thing great big thing before cell phones made all the kids zombies who ride bicycles until age 30. "Youngsters" aren't into P-cars, because they can't afford them. They're into Japanese tuner cars like the WRX and Civic, because they're cheap, and there's a huge aftermarket of cheap parts and mods for them. (And they have four doors and seats for hos and bros.) Those kids are hardly afraid of getting their hands dirty wrenching; in fact, they can't stop themselves from swapping out parts and modding the crap out of them until the car becomes a monstrosity to older eyes. The Pelican audience probably has no idea this is going on, and concludes that because they don't see 19 year olds buying 911s and tuning them, they don't care about cars. The youngsters who care about cars are definitely out there, they just don't care about Porsches, or can't afford to.

Also, what about pickup truck culture? It's not a thing on the coasts, but elsewhere lifting and modifying big American pickups is a huge thing.

When someone laments that young people aren't interested in cars these days, I just see someone who is completely out of touch and living in a bubble.