How does this fraud work?

[Steve Carlton]

I'm selling my Mirai on CarGurus and Autotrader for a low price and can't believe all the morons that are responding. It's a FCV (fuel cell vehicle) and runs on hydrogen, but I'm finding out some responders don't realize that, so I modified my ad. I get people offering full price and then never doing anything else. Now I've got a guy who hasn't seen the car that is FedEx'ing me a cashier's check tomorrow. I asked for a wire transfer instead, but he says he's unable to do that. I asked him what bank is making the check and he said Chase. I banked at First Republic which got taken over by Chase, so I guess I do as well.

Now he's saying the check will have extra money to pay for the mover who is supposed to pick up the car after the check clears. How is this supposed to work? If Chase says the check is good, where's my risk? This has got red flags everywhere.

[Dantilla]

Check is obviously a fake.
I got a similar response when selling a Jeep. "Buyer" would have his very trustworthy shipper come pick it up.

My response: There is a large vacant lot across the street from my bank (true).
Since you trust your shipping agent, have him pay me. I will meet him at my bank, deposit cash, and I will help load the Jeep onto his trailer. Everybody wins.

As expected, no response after that. Poof! Buyer gone.

[masraum]

He gets the car, the mover is probably him or a buddy, they get some cash. In the end the banks eventually realize the check was fake, and take their money back (if you ever get it). THen you're out the car. Or something along those lines.

[Alan A]

Takes a while to clear. You send him $ before it bounces. It bounces. You are out $.
Google overpayment scam. Block him.

[dad911]

https://www.doj.nh.gov/consumer/dont-cash-that-check/check-overpayment.htm

Check Overpayment Scam.

I will not take a check in any form.

[Steve Carlton]

He said I can wait until the cashier’s check clears. If Chase tells me it’s cleared, how does it bounce?

I know this is fraud, just not sure how it’s accomplished if I give Chase time.

[Por_sha911]

This is a very old scam. Tell him no deal and don't call me or I'll get the police involved.

If he already sent the check, do NOT admit to receiving it. Shred it and move on.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Now I've got a guy who hasn't seen the car that is FedEx'ing me a cashier's check tomorrow. I asked for a wire transfer instead

AFAIK (and this may be wrong):

-A wire transfer is still not absolute.
Banks may be able to rescind them months later. Same with E-Bay to my understanding. The same holds true with some websites that pretend to act as escrow fiduciaries on behalf of the Seller. Then it is up to you the customer vs the bank. Pony up and lose more money.

-Some banks might still use the same In/Out routing numbers.
Meaning that routing number is good to port your entire bank balance to some account in the Cayman/Bahamas. Bye bye funds. That should be entirely their problem.

-Expect 9/10 advertisement responses to be fraud these days.

-The sale can wait a week. Or a month. Cash in hand is king.

[Arizona_928]

I love to get the cashier check scams sent to my po box.

At the end of the day. I wasted their money and time.

[stomachmonkey]

A check is just a piece of paper with a routing and account number on it.

You can hand write the whole thing on toilet paper and it’d be legal tender.

Banks don’t verify funds before they accept and process checks.

Your bank will almost always credit some if not all of the monies to your account before they know if the check is good.

So you deposit it, you see the money in your account, you think it’s cleared so you send back the extra money then the check bounces and whatever money was credited to you clawed back.

[Cairo94507]

I had a friend selling a car that had the same scam happen to him. He went to WFB to verify the check he received in the mail was good, WFB said it was good. He let the car go and about 10 days later WFB said the check was a counterfeit and no good. They debited his account the $10K.

Don't fall for these asshats and their BS checks and excuses.

[RobFrost]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

I'm selling my Mirai on CarGurus and Autotrader for a low price and can't believe all the morons that are responding. It's a FCV (fuel cell vehicle) and runs on hydrogen, but I'm finding out some responders don't realize that, so I modified my ad. I get people offering full price and then never doing anything else. Now I've got a guy who hasn't seen the car that is FedEx'ing me a cashier's check tomorrow. I asked for a wire transfer instead, but he says he's unable to do that. I asked him what bank is making the check and he said Chase. I banked at First Republic which got taken over by Chase, so I guess I do as well.



Now he's saying the check will have extra money to pay for the mover who is supposed to pick up the car after the check clears. How is this supposed to work? If Chase says the check is good, where's my risk? This has got red flags everywhere.

You pay the "mover" out of your buyer's transfer. The mover is actually your buyer. Buyer's original transfer then bounces. Buyer keeps the mover fee.

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk

[William930t]

Scam as mentioned from above posts, no need to cash the check. Knowing this, it might be fun to play along. Reply the check is "cashed", but the bank has forwarded his account information to the fraud department as a standard procedure, see what happens!

[Steve Carlton]

I find it hard to believe if the check is drawn against a Chase account and I take it to my bank (which is now owned by Chase), that they can't say the funds are good. But I'll ask them how long it takes for them to know the check has cleared. I know this is a scam, but wonder how it can work when my bank is the same as the "buyer."

Is the whole purpose of this for the "buyer" to come collect the transport fees? Does he intend to take the car with the title as well, or just say he'll be back to pick up the car?

Wouldn't local police be interested in arresting this guy, or at least identifying him?

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

I find it hard to believe if the check is drawn against a Chase account and I take it to my bank (which is now owned by Chase), that they can't say the funds are good. But I'll ask them how long it takes for them to know the check has cleared. I know this is a scam, but wonder how it can work when my bank is the same as the "buyer."

You'd think so but it can take checks, especially out of state checks 10+ business days to actually clear.

My guess, banks have millions of accounts with multi millions of transactions happening daily. Most likely the fraud rate as a percentage of total transactions is actually low enough for them to not bother with the expense of putting in the required infrastructure for real time validation. Couple that with it's you and not them that gets f'd in this than yeah, they probably don't care, after all, it's not them losing the money, it's you.

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Is the whole purpose of this for the "buyer" to come collect the transport fees? Does he intend to take the car with the title as well, or just say he'll be back to pick up the car?

Maybe they come for the car, most likely they tell you to use some form of electronic payment like a Money Gram. It's the least risk for them.

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Wouldn't local police be interested in arresting this guy, or at least identifying him?

Again, that's if "the buyer" is local and stupid enough to actually show up. Least likely outcome.

[Ayles]

When I sold my Xterra a few months back I used Escrow.com to sell to an out of state buyer. Transaction was trouble free as was the transport that was used. It probaly took a little longer and the fees are based on a percentage of the transaction but both sides were covered.

A legit buyer should not have any problems going this route.

[jasonpickett]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Wouldn't local police be interested in arresting this guy, or at least identifying him?

From my Experience with this the local police really don't have any interest in this. When I received a check like this twice both times were turned over to the FBI. I was questioned and also had my account frozen twice for 45 days. One with Bank of America and the other with BB&T. Both around 2009-2011. Luckily the guy didn't get possession of my vehicles because I was waiting for the check to clear. Also the check usually isn't accurate because the routing number or account number isn't for the bank. I really wouldn't get involved or try to be a hero in some sense. It isn't worth the headache.

[Eric Hahl]

Years ago I had a guy want to send me a check over the asking amount as well. He was out of country, coming back soon. Wanted to have me ship it to a friends house. After back and forth emails a few times he asked where to send the check.

I replied.

Sheriff Joe Arpaio
Maricopa County Sheriffs Office
blah blah blah (rest of the address)

Then he asked "why sheriff?"

I replied, "Well, that's who I am". But I couldn't ship the vehicle for a couple of weeks as I was in prison until Trump gives me a pardon.

Silence.

[Steve Carlton]

I called my bank and they're not fully merged with JP Morgan Chase yet. But they said it could take up to 10 business days for the check to clear. After that, if the check requester files a claim, it could take up to 90 days.

Wow.

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Now I've got a guy who hasn't seen the car that is FedEx'ing me a cashier's check tomorrow.

This guy has no interest in buying your car.