Hmm, I guess that could be the case if your qualifications are low pay and an advanced degree and experience.

As an unemployed aerospace engineer and programmer I have had a hard time finding work. I know part of the problem is that I have been 'overqualified' for many of the positions I have applied for, which I think is a nice way of saying that a company does not want to pay you what you are worth.

In attempt to take a low stress and easy job that pays well I have been turning wrenches at the local porsche dealership. All I can say is thank god I have a good set of skills besides engineering.

A few weeks ago I saw an ad for honeywell for a job here in the area for a systems programmer with 10+ years experience to design critical life support systems for the space shuttle.

The specified salary range was less than what I was making as an auto tech.

I am a big believer that the only companies wanting to import labor for advanced tech jobs are the ones that don't want to pay US citizens the fair rate for their work.

Then again I guess its easier to believe or BS that there are no qualified americans for a tech job than to admit that your company is too cheap to hire one. :rolleyes:

My Dad had Philosophy....save your money.....he always said having a big bank account made going to work a lot easier cause U could always tell em to fk off if you wanted to...and when your employer told you to bend over...your knowing you had the money made it a lot easier to do...U could do it with a smile.... like hurt me some more!

btw: mY dAD was an Aero Space engineer (Chemical, General, and Materials)...who had a Tool and Die making trade as well... Packard Motor Cars in the 30's and 40's..

Blue skye I only play the fool to those who would believe I am one....

Let's look at things as they are...IF FOR INSTANCE....the people of the USA woke up tommorow and discovered that due to ????? they would be wiped out financially and lose all those things we in America consider to be necessities and the rest of the world considers to be luxuries.. WHO WOULD CARE HOW MANY DEAD AMERICAN SOLDIERS IT WOULD TAKE TO GET THOSE THINGS BACK? WHO WOULD CARE IF AMERICAN FORCES TORTURED CAPTIVES TO GAIN INFORMATION TO PRESERVE WHAT YOU HAVE? If you don't believe me try washing your clothes on a rock down by the river sometime, living by candle light, *****ing in a hole in the ground, getting your water from a well that maybe contaminated from your BM, and using a piece of cardboard as roofing material... So America, we all got blood on our hands, and should Thank Gawd that the USA still has the minerals to do what it takes...whether that be GW or some other GeeGaw in office.

".......they would be wiped out financially and lose all those things we in America consider to be necessities and the rest of the world considers to be luxuries.. WHO WOULD CARE HOW MANY DEAD AMERICAN SOLDIERS IT WOULD TAKE TO GET THOSE THINGS BACK? WHO WOULD CARE IF AMERICAN FORCES TORTURED CAPTIVES TO GAIN INFORMATION TO PRESERVE WHAT YOU HAVE?"

It's always easier to think in black and white terms. Alas, things in life are not that simple. Perhaps they are for you.

Who would care? I would guess a lot of people. The majority? Dunno. I can't speak for them .... and neither should you.

Sherwood

It's called HUMAN NATURE and has nothing to do with Black or White...and those issues including shades of Grey are for people who have the LUXURY of sitting back in their nice easy chair and pondering those issues....

Let's take a look at some relativily recent History....The Soviets lost 1,000,000 men at the Battle of Stalingrad, the siege of Leningrad cost 2,000,000 peoples lives and included canabilism...which the USSR didn't admit to until Harrison Salisburys book "The 900 Days" published in the 1970's.

America has gotten away on the cheap with regards to lives lost in it's wars...excluding the Civil War. Why, as one scholar whose name escapes me at the moment theorizes is that we use our technology and our industrial productivity instead of lives to defeat our enemy. What I am saying is the people of the USA faced with the same situation as the USSR was faced with would have the same minerals as the Soviets did to preserve the Country and our standard of living.... U doubt that???

OR....Do you think Harry Truman WOULDN"T have invaded Japan if the A-Bomb wasn't available to him....The projected USA casualities for the invasion of Japan were 1,000,000 men.

Somehow, I don't see a connection with the many lives lost in a war as in WWII, with acting like a bully and taking advantage of other people just because we think our life style is going to suffer if we don't. So maybe you think we should have nuked Russia back in '45 too? Why don't we make a pre-emptive strike against Korea. We know they have WMD, Bush told us so didn't he?

And how about China? Surely those numerous shifty types can't be trusted to co-exist with us and keep us supplied with cheap labor and merchandise. Hey, while we're at it, let's make sure we don't ever have a shortage of oil and fuel for our SUVs. Get rid of Saudi Arabia, and let's invade Mexico too. Once we have Mexico under US rule, we can build our own version of the Great Wall along our border and let in only Mexican crude oil. Next stop, Venezuela. What the hell, let's finish off Russia too. We'll have free access to their oil and diamonds once we drop some thermo-nuclear devices on a few chosen cities.

I guess self-preservation is "human nature". We get rid of any potential troublemakers and we preserve our fabulous life style. This is just as "easy" as overthrowing a country of it's dictator and "freeing" its masses like we're doing now in little ole' Iraq.

Sherwood

Preemptive strikes are never justified despite the fact that the masses of many a nation throughout history have been duped into thinking so.

Whether it was Germany attacking their neighbors or Japan attacking the US each country had its empire and security in mind when doing so but we know how history now regards these acts of agression.

Concidering how much of the axis power structure was adsorbed into the growing US national security aparatus after WW II (project paperclip anyone?) and how many of their progeny currently occupy our nation's military, security and administrative aparatus it only makes sense that the US is now plowing ahead where other nations bent on world domination have failed.

I fear that the next 50 years of the 21st century will be very much like the first 50 years of the 20th century with the following changes.

The US represents Germany
Afganistan represents Poland
Iraq represents France
Anti-Arabism replaces Anti-Semitism
And nationalism and security are the same old themes used to convince the masses of the agressor nation that they need to 'civilize' the world.

Thousands of years of history have shown us that these attempts at global domination will always fail with usually disasterous results for the nation that tries to do the dominating but with the temporary awards always being so great for the agressor the story keeps repeating itself.

Lets just hope the the world and we citizens of the US fare much better than most of the world and the germans did when they tried the same things over 50 years ago.

With the stakes so much higher WW III could make WW II look like a pinick in comparison.

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." Albert Einstein

Hey, tell us about roman empire :)

Well, the roman empire existed from 625 BC to AD 476, or so. . . .about 1101 years. Though if your talking eastern Roman empire it lasted until AD 1453. . . .that would make it 2078 years.

The world would not have near the science, art or current infrastructure if not for the influence of the powerful Roman empire. Language and political processes where created by the innovative Romans.

Today, the United States of America, is just a few hundred years old. In that time the US is creating language standards for computers, delving into the depths of the human genome, developing unsupassed agriculture processes to feed the ever growing world, encouraging and generating art at a dizzying speed, . . . .the list goes on. In fact the internet we are using to share ideas, and data, came from the good ol' USof A.

All this and more, because we have a political process based in large part to what was developed by the Romans. Written laws, voting, urban culture . . . I guess you could say, much of Rome is still alive and well.

Is that what you wanted to hear? :p

Iconoclast
 

Pleze the German analogy don't hold H2O. The Roman analogy does...and I've said that before, and I'll say this again the USA isn't conquering the world with armies...but IDEAS and technology. Entertainment/popular culture is our biggest weapon along with technology...Military force is an adjunct to our economic power...Don't ever mistake that. we don't want the territory we want the minds and souls of the people who live there, and thats why there is such a backlash in the Muslim world which is still trying to adhere to 14th Century values.

But if push comes to shove the people of the USA will howl like the French Mob did for the head of Louie to keep those SUV's fed. We've grown acustom to the LUXURY...and my proof is the meanderings of the limp wristed liberals who continoiusly whine about American agression...How is that proof you say...it is only a country grown soft with luxury that would even consider taking the foot off your enemies throat while he still has a weapon in his hand. The rest of the world would finish off the enemy and eat his lunch.

Now boyz....everybody always looks at how Heroic the Jewish defenders of Masada were in fending off a Roman Army in the 2nd century AD. Nobody looks at the determination of the Romans...they took 2 years to build a RAMP out of dirt aproximately 2 miles long to get at those Herioc Jewish defenders. The point being that the USA has the same determination in rooting out Terrorists and putting them to the sword.

Finially you better remember this....Chairman Mao said WW3 will be fought between the industrialized Nothern countries and those of the 3rd World South....Hmmm sound like whats going on here...

Yeah, I guess its a lot easier for most people to romanticise the imperial past of the romans as compared to the nazis.

If not for the legacy of the holocaust I imagine a lot more people would be pining about what a safer, more efficient and advanced world we would be living in if the german empire was running the world.

What ever makes you sleep better at night. :rolleyes:

You have no idea what you're talking about--I am NOT in the aerospace industry. Honeywell, Boeing, et al are not considered tech companies. Believe you me, we're offering a competetive salary for the tech sector. Plus the location is in Arizona, which has a comparatively (to, say Silicon Valley) low cost of living.

The primary problem, I'm finding, is that the people with the qualifications we're seeking are more interested in getting their PhD and staying in academia. Which, BTW, doesn't pay as well. :D

Well, like me they are probably concerned with being layed off as soon as their project is done versus having a job years from now.

Engineers are now often nothing more than glorified temps.

I learned my lesson the hard way when I was hired away from a stable consultant position to become the head of IT for a company here in the Tampa area. Since it would require relocating me and my family I told them that I was looking for a permanant position and they stated the position would exist as long as the company was around. Well, a little over a year later when all the major projects were complete and most of the busy work could be assigned to grunts and subs I was given my pink slip.

My auto tech job may not have paid me as well as my previous job had but short of my indescretion it was at least a job that I knew would be there for me years down the road.

For people with house payments, car payments and a family to support job security is a key concern when the job market sucks.

"Engineers are now often nothing more than glorified temps. "
Well, yeah. If you find a life-long engineering project, you're likely working for the government, or a huge company. (or you're a really bad engineer)tic. Very few places need engineers beyond the scope of the project dejour.

"a job that I knew would be there for me years down the road. "
How could you "know" that? It is a HUGE mistake to think any particular job is something you have secured a right to. Even if you have a contract, there will be some 'out' for the one paying the bill . . .something like. . . uhmm, I don't know; maybe a sham "random" drug test. :rolleyes:

Oops, sorry. This is the "Writings of Mass Deviation" thread. I was looking for the other one. :rolleyes:

Ed

My Dad was an Aero Space Engineer back in the 1950's and 60's..he made GOOD money...but when the project was completed out the door he went..onto the next company and next project...only thing is by the time U hit 40..the companies didn't want you anymore...there was someone younger who would work for less and the younger guys technology was fresher. So my Dad went to Civil Service and started as a GS13...he did that primarily to ensure that he had a retirement.

A friend of my Dad was an engineer who worked for Robert Shaw for 20 years (this was back around 1970 btw) and one day he found out that his retirement from the company was going to be $200.00 a month. Needless to say he quit and went to work for SCE, and his wife went to work at Home Savings...So that they could have a retirement.

So maybe HP350 U bin a little naive there. I'll bet U ain't gona be tokin anythin anytime soon...U gona be coverin yo a$$, so that paycheck to pay those bills keeps comin in...welcome to the real world...

SPQR!

Hmmm...what's this mean?

Are those the letters of the tattoo Russell Crowe carved out of his arm in "Gladiator?"

I think it is Latin and has to do with Rome? SPOR

Good post BG! Thanks for raising the queston dd74!

WMD's?

What do you mean no weapons of mass destruction?
SADDAM HUSSEIN was a Weapon of Mass Destruction...

If you don't think there were any weapons of mass destruction
in IRAQ then the UN is a joke. I think they rightly said on the NEWS that because the IRAQI people still think Saddam Hussein is alive they will not tell the USA and the British forces where the WMD's are out of fear. Some are still hoping he comes back to power so they can use them on us.

Don't you think the Mobile WMD laboratories that we found
mean anything? I believe they point to what that devil encarnate and his henchman were doing?

Iraq is the size of California. If I had billions of dollars like Saddam had before we ended his reign of terror I could have hidden the WMD's and a whole lot more.


Benson