No. He's giving me the epidural to get me out of pain and off of the tramadol for now. He said back surgery is probably in my future. I have heard bad things about back surgery going wrong. I'd like to get through the summer before going under the knife if possible.

There are bad things that go wrong with back surgery. We've BTDT. My wife and me. This is where the choice you make about surgeon and hospital are absolutely critical. Take it from a guy that had a total shoulder replacement, a revision (removed every bit of it) and a 3rd surgery in the span of 4 years. So far so good. The last surgeon did his fellowship at Mayo.

The first cat was a USC/Keck graduate. Sounds impressive, but it's not. They are a dime a dozen here in SoCal. My wife is hung up on this female neurosurgeon that has operated on her and her daughter. She has a lot of credentials and my wife and stepdaughter continue to have problems. Well respected at the hospital but she's far from the only choice unless you're in the ER and she's on call.

I would have switched surgeons after the first go round. The best don't mess up.

wdfifteen,

I edited my post.

I hadn't seen your post about your hip being mildly arthritic and NOT the cause of your pain.

I'm so sorry for your pain and I hope you find a solution quickly, I know the pain 1st hand.

Pre-H20

Jeebus, Denis, that's my story in a nutshell. Herniated, bulged out discs pressing into my spinal cord. 9-10 level pain (at least on my "old" scale, prior to having the post herpetic nerve pain associated with Shingles. Believe it or not, that experience dropped this back pain thing to less than a "0.10", with the Shingles pain at about, oh, say 300 or more... but I've told that story elsewhere). Anyway, nothing touched it (the back pain).

I started out with cortisone injections, with the needle guided by some sort of x-ray (he was looking at a screen as well). They were trying to reduce the swelling of the discs, to no avail. So it was on to back surgery, where they simply cut back the bulging parts of the discs, again while watching on a screen.

That helped for awhile. I'm not as lucky as you - my pain returned. The discs eventually dried out and no longer adequately cushion the vertebrae they are meant to keep apart. They now kind of miss-align into one another, catching at an odd angle that pinches my spinal column again. I'm told the only "cure" is to fuse the offending vertebrae.

As an engineer, my first questions were what that would do to the joints above and below the fused ones. The answer was as expected - it will increase stress upon them, and those discs will eventually fail as well. Then they get fused, and we work our way up and down my back from there, until it's just a boney piece of REBAR. "No thanks" was my answer to that, to which my surgeon replied "hopefully you don't live that long"...

So, Patrick, I've been in your shoes for years. I have "good days" and I have "bad days". Like can't feel my right leg, clubfoot hard to walk on, and some pretty good pain. Fortunately, I'm mostly able to manage it by managing my activity types and levels. But when it elevates to "unbearable", I break down and take the drugs.

Modern society has, unfortunately, a real stigma about that. We have some lingering "Puritan hangover" that has ahold of us. Pain is noble or something. "Stiff upper lip, my good chap" and all of that b.s. Well, as my doctor addressed my own reluctance, it's down to a "quality of life" issue. I'm on only one other med, one for cholesterol. I take it every day. She asked me if I ever worry that I'm "addicted" to that. The consequences of ceasing to take it could be pretty dire. So, she tells me to consider the pain meds in the same light. Quality of life, and if I just try to tough it out and give them up, that suffers a great deal. Yet it's tough to not view one's self as a "drug addict". Like I said, a real stigma surrounding their use.

Sorry to prattle on like this. I just want you to know you are not alone. There are others of us that struggle with this same dilemma. Hopefully you can find long term relief through surgery, like Denis. I didn't, but here I am, leading a very active, fulfilling life in spite of the specter of constant pain hanging over my head. It can be done.

This this this


My last surgeon did his residency at the mayo(which you recommended in my thread and i took that seriously) and the level of competency was incredible. The general surgeon came to visit during recovery and stated how impressed he was with him.

Well this was interesting.
Yesterday morning I took a Tramadol when I woke up and was feeling pretty good. I bled the brakes on the VW, which involved getting up and down off the creeper 10 or 12 times. Then I mowed the front 40 - an hour and a half of bouncing around on the mower. I was a little sore, but not in great pain right through to bed time.
Woke up this morning with not much pain. Walked the dog, fed the chickens, worked on the VW until about 10 AM - four morning hours without drugs and I was feeling OK. Unprecedented.
I started to get in the truck to go to town and WHAM! It was like someone whacked me in the back with a ball bat. I hobbled into the house and laid down, Vic brought me a Tramadol, and an hour later I was feeling OK again.

Higgins just likes aftermarket performance parts.............OEM factory ones wear out sooner.

Wow. Well, that's great. Mayo may have produced a dud but IDT they let in but the very best to begin with. My last surgeon was also a professor at a medical school. That's another credential to look for. In fact, I'd sign up to be operated on with a bunch of medical students watching on CCTV.

I talked with a guy that was the San Diego Padres team orthopedic surgeon but he got out of the shoulder business so he didn't want to do it. This was at Hoag Orthopedic Hospital in Irvine CA. That's all they do there, no other types of surgery.

The had a shoulder guy but he got COVID and it messed him up. I think he had a stoke.

I tell everyone who asks regarding my total hip replacement to go aftermarket. One of the best, most life altering (for the good, anyway... ;) ) things I have ever done.

The pain in my hip continues to ramp up. It's amazing how much things can change in a week. I have an MRI today, then scheduling an epidural. I'm hoping it helps.
I'm at a bad place right now. I feel my self image teetering. I know if I fall over the cliff and start thinking of myself as a sick person I'm done for. I keep going, but it's getting harder and harder.
I took Owen for a 1 mile walk this morning to prove to myself I still have some gas in the tank. Hurt like hell and my leg tried to go out from under me a couple of times. Vicki keeps telling me I'm overdoing it, but I can't face the alternative.

Prayers and best wishes for an improvement to at minimum "reasonably functional", but preferably "comfortable".

Hang in there Patrick! I've got my fingers crossed that the MRI will show the docs what to fix and tackle that pain-center pronto. (And listen to your better half; you don't want to do additional damage by proving yourself - not this close to relief.)

My .02:

Tramadol is the spawn of Satan.

When my back issues started in 2012, my MD (actual doctor) gave me Percocet. No problem, took care of the pain and no issues with dependence. I had some concerns so during a Neuro appointment we discussed some drug that wasn't so powerful. He recommended Tramadol and at that time is was not on the Schedule (so providers were just fine subbing that for opioids).

For a couple of years I rotated tramadol and percocet AND never had any problems.

FF to a change of Army station move and a new primary care provider that was not an MD (only a PA). PCM didn't want to prescribe percocet at all because she had been sued after a patient took it and had a car wreck.

Next thing I know, I'm on Tramadol ONLY. In addition to anti depressant properties discussed below, it also has a tendency to be less effective at your dosage over time causing an increase. There comes a point where missing a dose isn't realistic.

Tramadol has anti-depressant properties, so what OP posted about withdrawal is due in large part to those properties. Even if your dosage doesn't increase, skipping a day here or there can cause those withdrawal symptoms, even just a delay in taking your dosage can cause the symptoms. I would experience muscle spasms, vertigo like symptoms, and flu like symptoms.

Edit: so in addition to the pain relief when you take a dose, your brain is getting a boost from the anti-depressant properties in the drug. So missing a dose or skipping day gives you a double whammy when it comes to withdrawal, one in your brain and the other from physical withdrawal.



So, I would highly recommend not going down that rabbit hole with Tramadol. Find another opioid for your pain, that is only for pain. I know a few other folks that have had similar experience unfortunately.

Available evidence from all other sources demonstrates that low-dose tramadol in the range of 50 mg-200 mg/day is a generally safe, effective, and fast-acting antidepressant for a substantial number of individuals suffering from depression. It seems reasonable that this medication should be one of the many alternatives available to and considered by clinicians as they treat depression, especially treatment resistant depression.

https://www.pharmacytimes.com/view/tramadol-a-missed-opportunity-for-the-treatment-of-depression

Well, you know I've been through the wringer once or 2wice. I think you are being a little hard on yourself. Don't take the cavalier stand is what I'd say. You aren't going to turn into a prune and die it you save a little gas in your tank.

Like F1, we all start out with not an unlimited amount. Pacing is good.

I took up jogging for short distances awhile back. I used to run regularly. I thought hard work every day was keeping fit. After many years of hard work and worn out shoulders, I thought taking a little jog would be a breeze. Not. I felt like I weighed 300 lbs. It came back fairly quickly, less than a month. But I keep it light as knees and hips are good enough for just enough.

Don't Give Up is our credo, and this sign showed itself, unprompted, at the end of a steep, long, gravel-fest where all we could think of was what was chilling in the cooler at the end of the line - but we still had a couple-few miles of road to get there. It was worth it. It always is.

Don't Give Up, Patrick. You'll get through this.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1690583046.jpg


(The guy in the light jersey is 72. He legs that bike like a 50 year old. He's a bullet on the downhills. The 59 y/o guy in the black is currently on a solo tour of the Great Divide from Banff to the Mexican border. I'm the guy behind the camera, and I'm in between these two guys, agewise, and believe me I have to use all my skills to hang with them.)

Interesting. I did not know that.
I don't intend to stay on the drugs. If I wanted to I could probably increase the dose of pain killer and get by. But both my mother and my first wife were prescription drug addicts and I refuse to go down that road. The drugs turned them into nasty people and i want to maintain my pleasant, affable personality. ;)

I envy you guys. I used to run marathons until the arthritis got to me 15 years ago. I still miss it from time to time.

+1, almost verbatim to what Denis said. L4/5 Laminectomy for herniated disc.

Mine was 35 years ago, and I had an outstanding neurosurgeon. My scar is more like 4", and I had general anesthesia - not watching on a monitor.

Life changing. 35 years later at age 58, and I still mountain bike, ski, etc...

Before surgery, pain level was on a runaway train to addiction. After surgery plus about 6 weeks of recovery and basic therapy, no pain, and fully active. I would literally do it again tomorrow at 6:00 a.m., but yes, I do think doctor selection matters...a lot.

That sounds terrible. Iv been having sciatic pain for almost a year now in my left leg. Im only 38 and no shortage of excercise. My butt is skin and bones so I guess it got agrivated. Iv curbed the pain by adding alot of foam to my computer chair and my bed. But I cant carry a piece of foam in my underwear everywhere I sit so it still gets sat on alot. Right now im kneeling instead of sitting in my chair. It sucks because when it starts feeling fine i sit down more then it gets bad again. I never take meds thats just masking the problem and making more.