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-   -   Who are these people that run the schools ? (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/1144809-who-these-people-run-schools.html)

Superman 08-15-2023 06:37 AM

Another vote of support for Fred. We love your candor, bro.

Another vote for calm. When I was in private sector sales, the angry cussers did not scare me. The calm voices were much more scary.

I don't agree with the "lawyer-up" nuclear option as a first step. In your shoes, I would continue to read the code, ask questions, and particularly questions about process. What is the grievance procedure? Eventually a lawyer might be needed. Or not.

I am not convinced that formal, legal guardianship is needed. Maybe it is, but this too is a question of process that you could ask. It sounds like he is staying at his aunt's house, minutes from the campus he wants to attend. I think his aunt is the guardian.

Keep asking questions. Calmly. When you communicate with them in writing, it makes them think carefully about their responses to your questions. Ask great questions. Be persistent, asking better and better questions as you learn the process. I will not be surprised if they get tired of telling you no. Instead, finding a path for what you want.

There are plenty of folks who are frustrated with the perception in school districts that every student should prepare for college and attend college. Become an engineer, I suppose. Many of us wish schools would notice the legitimacy of trade careers. In my area, union sheet metal workers earn a straight-time wage/benefit package around $100 per hour. Those jobs cannot be outsourced. Recruiting is challenging, which means pay will increase further. Those are good careers. We have tried to get school districts to see this, with little success.

Superman 08-15-2023 06:41 AM

Oops. I guess I am confused. Do you want him to attend a campus near where he stays at his aunt's house? And they think his aunt is the guardian? That would suggest he is going to the campus near his aunt. I am confused.

wdfifteen 08-15-2023 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superman (Post 12068319)
I don't agree with the "lawyer-up" nuclear option as a first step. In your shoes, I would continue to read the code, ask questions, and particularly questions about process. What is the grievance procedure?

In my neighbor's experience is there is no "grievance procedure." They have rules - you follow them. Period. No negotiation. No rational solution. Just Follow Our Damn Rules.
My suggestion to find a lawyer was to find a legal way to follow the rules, not go after the school.
Keep a cool head Fred.

Superman 08-15-2023 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdfifteen (Post 12068331)
.... No rational solution....

Respectfully, I doubt this.

Particularly in this case. I think I figured out the geography. Son stays at auntie's place because it is near the campus. Fred's place is an hour away. School concludes the auntie is not the "guardian" under the written code, and insists the child attend the school near Fred, the guardian (according to the district's interpretation of the code). Fred & Son prefer the campus near auntie.

If so, there are a number of ways to fix this. Here is a partial list:

1) Modify the school's interpretation of "guardian." This solution has sub-topics such as studying case law, precedent, governing board taking interpretive action, etc.

2) Make auntie the legal guardian of child/student.

3) Change Fred's address, at least on paper, to reflect auntie's location.

My state has an elected statewide officer known as the Superintendent of Public Instruction. This office is responsive to complaints.

I mentioned a governing board of the school or school district. This board steers policy.

Having worked in a government office off and on for a good number of years I can tell you that a determined, persistent stakeholder can create a fair bit of work for the person who could fix this, and a fair bit of attention on that person from various governing administrative or policy persons or bodies. In other words, if somebody pitched a big enough fit and got enough legislators involved, my boss might come to me and say "Fix this please." A single letter to the governor's office triggered a series of meetings, various reply drafts, review by the Assistant Director, the Director and legal staff (Office of the Assistant Attorney General). Attention by legislators raises the danger of a legislature punishing an agency with a new law. Altogether several hours of work, and sometimes much more than that, falling onto several people or more whose workloads are already too high for this feces.

Zeke 08-15-2023 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superman (Post 12068410)
Respectfully, I doubt this.

Particularly in this case. I think I figured out the geography. Son stays at auntie's place because it is near the campus. Fred's place is an hour away. School concludes the auntie is not the "guardian" under the written code, and insists the child attend the school near Fred, the guardian (according to the district's interpretation of the code). Fred & Son prefer the campus near auntie.

If so, there are a number of ways to fix this. Here is a partial list:

1) Modify the school's interpretation of "guardian." This solution has sub-topics such as studying case law, precedent, governing board taking interpretive action, etc.

2) Make auntie the legal guardian of child/student.

3) Change Fred's address, at least on paper, to reflect auntie's location.

My state has an elected statewide officer known as the Superintendent of Public Instruction. This office is responsive to complaints.

I mentioned a governing board of the school or school district. This board steers policy.

Having worked in a government office off and on for a good number of years I can tell you that a determined, persistent stakeholder can create a fair bit of work for the person who could fix this, and a fair bit of attention on that person from various governing administrative or policy persons or bodies. In other words, if somebody pitched a big enough fit and got enough legislators involved, my boss might come to me and say "Fix this please." A single letter to the governor's office triggered a series of meetings, various reply drafts, review by the Assistant Director, the Director and legal staff (Office of the Assistant Attorney General). Attention by legislators raises the danger of a legislature punishing an agency with a new law. Altogether several hours of work, and sometimes much more than that, falling onto several people or more whose workloads are already too high for this feces.

I agree with the latter part, the large paragraph. RE: items 2 and 3, the aunt might be listed as some sort of adjunct guardian. IDK these laws so pardon any ignorance. Sounds like a court appearance would be necessary. Having Fred listed as residing at the aunt's will take some documentation like voter's registration, etc. Not easy.

No. 1 is a viable path but a lawyer in this instance could make short work of that, But at what expense?

fastfredracing 08-15-2023 12:04 PM

I think I am making some headway with this . I sent him the code, and explained my case a little bit clearer . Sounds like he is beggining to understand .
They will not bus him from anuties, but will be responsible for his return trips . Exactly what I was presenting .
I get that they probably deal with 25 needy parents a day with all sorts of assinine requests .
The part that pisses me off, is that this guy has basically dismissed us every time in the past . The initial answer was always , " no we cant do that " . Then he trys to feed me incorrect information about the state code . Blasphemy, I can read
My wife used to voice frustration about it , and I think she would always give in to their stale mate . I should have stepped in way earlier .
When he tried to deny us vo tech last year , I went def con 5 and would not take no for an answer . I did as you guys said, and made my case to everyone who would listen .
Its frustrating. This is my son, my family. Don't try to make me go away with a few clever words .
Are they not supposed to be there to help ? This guy is the director of special education for the local school district, which has poor to no support for special needs kids .
You guys are the bomb.com for a sounding board . I try to offer advice back when I can . Thanks !!

Zeke 08-15-2023 12:38 PM

Good outcome. AFA as dealing with bureaucracy, you done good.

No, they aren't there for us. Once someone gets on the gov't tit, they're in their world.

Eric 951 08-15-2023 03:25 PM

Good news Fred. Keep on it. You are a good man doing right by your son.

masraum 08-15-2023 04:02 PM

Give him hell, but in a way that ensures that your kid gets what's best for him and that the wanker can't do anything about it.

I'm sure there are plenty of great folks in the education system. I think they have a largely thankless job. But a lot like just about any group, there are also bad apples. Fortunately, it sounds like this one is not smart enough or too lazy to be effectual.

masraum 08-15-2023 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john70t (Post 12068022)
Short and sweet and to the point. No opinions. These are the facts. This is the law. This is what needs to be done. How soon can that happen. If not then why not. Please respond fully in writing. No tangents about feelings and who said what when, other than a single mention of the hardship and difficulty it has placed upon your family and how his education has been damaged. I am your biggest threat right now. I am fully in the right. This is what you need to do to avoid a worse situation. I am offering a quiet resolution right now and suggest you take it.

Exactly!

Then follow up with a simple request to Nick and Guido to pay the guy a friendly visit to discuss the matter in simple terms that he'll understand.

masraum 08-15-2023 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastfredracing (Post 12068582)
I think I am making some headway with this . I sent him the code, and explained my case a little bit clearer . Sounds like he is beggining to understand .

Excellent!
Quote:

The part that pisses me off, is that this guy has basically dismissed us every time in the past . The initial answer was always , " no we cant do that " . Then he trys to feed me incorrect information about the state code .
Yep, that sort of behavior is VERY common in all sorts of jobs, I've seen it 100 times, and it works most of the time because most folks aren't that motivated to confirm what they are told or smart enough to figure it out.
Quote:

Are they not supposed to be there to help ? This guy is the director of special education for the local school district, which has poor to no support for special needs kids.
Yep, probably there to help. But that's a lot of work. His job is so much easier if he can mostly ignore and dismiss all but the most persistent people. He's a wanker. He probably enjoys "exercising his power."


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